Bike not charging at idle with headlight on.

[andrewclaycomb]

Ok, I don't know if this is normal or not.

I recently did the coil relay mod. The bike is running great. I went out to my bike today and the battery didn't have enough power to electric start. I had to kick start, which I did. So now I think something may be wrong with my battery. My multimeter is showing about 11.5 volts with the bike idling and the headlight on. I turn the light off and it shows about 12.5 volts.


I rode around for about an hour and noticed that my headlight wasn't on but the switch was in the on position. (During the day, looked at my reflection in the bike of the car in front of me at stop lights/signs.) I flipped the light off and then back on and it turned on. I thought maybe the battery is too low so I left it off and came home,was about a 20 minute ride home. When I get home I put the battery tender on the battery and it instantly goes into storage mode, apparently the battery is full.

Whats going on? In a little I'm going to go back out and see what the voltage is at after sitting for a while. Maybe I just had a low battery and it hadn't charged fully yet.

Reg/rec is a new electrex (less than a year old.)

Battery is a sealed type and less than a year old. All winter I kept it inside and kept it on a tender until it fully charged and put it away for a few weeks and then did it over again. It has been cold the last couple of nights and the battery has been in the bike outside (high 30s,) could the cold have discharged it?

Also before I did the coil relay mod the battery would be at about 12.5 volts with the headlight on at idle.

Is it normal for the relay to consume more power? I wouldn't think so because it is basically replacing stock wiring. Although the coils now have a direct feed of power.

[psyguy]

http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfault.htm

did you do all the testing as described in the flowchart above?
that d be my first port of call :-D

[Redman]

You didnt say what battery voltage when engine reved up. But sounds like a charging problem.

Yes, check out the stator papers. Is very detailed.

.

[posplayr]

I have not read all of the text in full

In the coil relay description, but for every solenoid that is installed and energized, you are probably pulling an extra 3-4 amps. So 3 relays and you are looking at 9-12 amps just to power the relays. I'm assuming there are about 3-4 ohms Resistance in the relay/solenoid coil. Use an ohm meter to measure the coil resistance to be sure.

[edit 4/2/08: I measured what is probably a typical automotive "little black box" 5 terminal relay ER803-C-12VDC 30/40A/14VDC and it has 80 ohms. So the current draw will be closer to 0.150 amps. I was off by about 20:1 so this would not be as much of a concern. The point remains that relays put a tax on the charging system and with three you are up to 1/2 and amp and this might be noticeable as the GS charging system doesn't even charge at idle with the lights on. YMMV , in other words measure the resistance of the coils you are going to use so you know that the additional load will not be excessive or detrimental. ]

With only one relay for coils you might get away with this. 3 or more is probably going to make a noticeable load unless you really have a good charging system in the first place.

3-4 amps is 3x12=36 or 4x12=48 watts.

Posplayr

[andrewclaycomb]

When I go through the stator papers should I have the light on or off?

[earlfor]

The headlight should be on and set to high beam. Also, charging system output is proportional to engine rpm. At a 1k idle rpm, charging output will be 20% of what it would be at 5k rpm. At idle rpm with the headlight, tail light and obviously, ignition system on, a non charging condition is normal since you are consuming more than can be produced.

Earl

When I go through the stator papers should I have the light on or off?

[andrewclaycomb]

Alright well a little more information.

The bike has been on the tender for a couple of hours now. (Since I've posted this.) The Tender is showing the battery is fully charged. I unhook the tender and try to start the bike. There isn't enough power. I check the voltage and it's at about 10.5 volts. What's going on? It's a Yuasa tender and I've never had a problem with it.

I forge on, kick start and run the bike up to 2500 rpm with the high beam on. I get a reading of 13.3 volts. I turn the headlight to the low beam and it goes down to about 12.5 volts at 2500 rpm. It's getting dark and I don't want to **** off any neighbors, so I don't take it up to 5000 rpm.

I hooked the tender back up and it says it's charging the battery, which I confirm with my multimeter at about 12.3 volts and that number is slowly increasing by a hundredth of a volt every second or two.


Should I take the battery off the bike and stick it on the tender inside for the night? See if it starts the bike tomorrow? I'm starting to wonder if I'm grounding somewhere I shouldn't be.

Any ideas?



EDIT: i also have the electrex reg/rec positive directly on the battery positive pole and the ground directly on the negative pole.


Here's the link to the coil relay I did. Does something look wrong. I assume if it works, it's hooked up right.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=122233

[twistedwankel]

[quote=
Any ideas?
[/quote]

I suggest you go (with bike) to the Free test at Autozone or Advance Auto. Let them hook up to your battery directly and their device will tell you which if any of the electrical systems is bad? Battery, charging, starter. Their only limitation is that it must be 12V system.

[andrewclaycomb]

I didn't know their testers worked on motorcycle charging systems/batteries.

For tonight I'm going to remove the battery from the bike and hook the tender up. If it starts tomorrow morning, it would make me think I had a charging issue and not a battery issue, which Autozone could confirm.

[psyguy]

Alright well a little more information.

The bike has been on the tender for a couple of hours now. (Since I've posted this.) The Tender is showing the battery is fully charged. I unhook the tender and try to start the bike. There isn't enough power. I check the voltage and it's at about 10.5 volts. What's going on?

that would suggest your battery is shot

[posplayr]

Battery

>>>>that would suggest your battery is shot
Based on symptions that seems like the easiest/most likely thing to check at the autozone.

[andrewclaycomb]

As much as much as the battery being bad sucks, I would still rather that be the problem than another electrical problem.

It's a year old sealed battery (got at the end of winter last year), if it is bad, would something have caused it to go bad? Just a bad apple?

[bakalorz]

In the coil relay description, but for every solenoid that is installed and energized, you are probably pulling an extra 3-4 amps. So 3 relays and you are looking at 9-12 amps just to power the relays. I'm assuming there are about 3-4 ohms Resistance in the relay/solenoid coil. Use an ohm meter to measure the coil resistance to be sure.

With only one relay for coils you might get away with this. 3 or more is probably going to make a noticeable load unless you really have a good charging system in the first place.

3-4 amps is 3x12=36 or 4x12=48 watts.

Posplayr

No way, absolutely not !!!

That was just BAD information.
I don't particularly want to pick on you posplayr, but if you don't have a clue about a particular question don't take a wild flying guess.

I'll gladly bet you $20 that the coil current for all 3 of his relays together is under 1 amp. Probably under 1/2 an amp

[andrewclaycomb]

I have the battery on my kitchen counter charging and when I put my ear up to it, i can hear a fizzing sound. Should I unplug this and just plan on getting a temporary cheapo walmart battery tomorrow? At least until I can get a Yuasa sealed battery in the mail.

I could hear the fizzing sound from a foot or two away when the tender was on it, and it was in the bike.

[bakalorz]

Alright well a little more information.

The bike has been on the tender for a couple of hours now. (Since I've posted this.) The Tender is showing the battery is fully charged. I unhook the tender and try to start the bike. There isn't enough power. I check the voltage and it's at about 10.5 volts. What's going on? It's a Yuasa tender and I've never had a problem with it.

I forge on, kick start and run the bike up to 2500 rpm with the high beam on. I get a reading of 13.3 volts. I turn the headlight to the low beam and it goes down to about 12.5 volts at 2500 rpm. It's getting dark and I don't want to **** off any neighbors, so I don't take it up to 5000 rpm.

I hooked the tender back up and it says it's charging the battery, which I confirm with my multimeter at about 12.3 volts and that number is slowly increasing by a hundredth of a volt every second or two.


Should I take the battery off the bike and stick it on the tender inside for the night? See if it starts the bike tomorrow? I'm starting to wonder if I'm grounding somewhere I shouldn't be.

Any ideas?



EDIT: i also have the electrex reg/rec positive directly on the battery positive pole and the ground directly on the negative pole.


Here's the link to the coil relay I did. Does something look wrong. I assume if it works, it's hooked up right.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=122233

If the battery is sulfated (ruined) it will come up in voltage very quickly, which will make a charger think it is charged. But then when you try to use it, you'll find that there's nothing there.

I'm pretty sure your battery is shot.

Unfortunately something caused that to happen. So there is a good chance that you have some other charging issues as well.

The first thing to check is all your connections, especially the grounds at battery and R/R and the bullet connectors on the stator wires. Also the fuse panel can have high resistance connections various places.

After that if you don't get good charging voltage (above 13 volts any time its above idle) then go through the stator papers.