Starting a long dormant engine.

[duaneage]

Lots of good ideas in the bottoms of bottles

[hikermikem]

Hang in to hear how it turns out.

You're killin' me - I have a bottle of bubbly here waiting for an excuse to open .

Sounds like you beat me too it!!

Good luck tomorrow with it, my toes are crossed too...

[tejasmud]

Did you cock the tensioner and release the plunger after the cams were installed?

That could sure make the chain jump once the starter button was pushed. If the plunger was not released.


Worth repeating.

[gearhead13]

Interesting Mr. P. this head was the same way when I got it but I thought I had pulled out 4 wads. Maybe something is further in.

The saran wrap idea is a good one. I never would have thought of that. I'll be trying that tonight.

Your Pappy must have been from Scottish stock like mine as he always said the same thing. I know they are going to be proven right when I finally suss this thing.

Thanks for that input.

Spyug

Hmmmm
Could it be that the rings are stuck in their grooves from being SEIZED??
Why wouldnt you pull the block and check the rings and free them up when you had the head off? Were the bores rusty? Why was it seized? I guess the old head gasket was put back on as well. I really cant see this thing having over 100psi compression. And with -10C temps, no airbox, and a 60k km engine, I think you are just spinning your wheels. Get a compression tester, I think the 4 valvers are a 12mm plug thread, I had to go buy a new one when I started with these engines.

[chef1366]

Put the ignition timing on TDC 1&4 first and then do the cam timing.
Rotate the engine several times and recheck the timing at the ignition and cams. You should be able to but the #1 arrow on the exhaust cam at the head surface and the lines be lined up for TDC #1&4.
You're killing me!

[spyug]

Gearhead, somewhere in this long narrative I mention popping the head to free the pistons.The cylinders were not badly scored or grooved so I deglazed them and checked that everything ran free. There was actually little or no rust in the cylinders other than where the rings had settled. the head was in equally good shape from what I could tell. Based on this I spoke at length with my pro wrench (over 20 years a bike mechanic) and he suggested that it wouldn't hurt to bolt everything back together and try and fire it.

Now some folks say its foolish to fart around like this and not do a proper rebuild when things are apart. Normally I might agree but in this case,I am reluctant to pour money into a project that I am not convinced that I want to keep. I didn't go looking for this bike, it was offered to me. I am mildly interested as it is somewhat of a collector bike but I could easily part with it. It does not grab me the way some other bikes do.

My plan with this build was to get it running and if it went well and seemed sound I might put an effort into it and possibly keep it awhile. If not, try and recoup my small outlay and move on to something else.

While I find this all very frustrating it is a wonderful learning curve for not only myself but lots of the others that have been following along.

Chef, I'll get back on this tomorrow...hopefully with a clear head. I'm not giving up until I can hear some fire inthe hole or unless something is seriously broken in which case it might be on to the spare engine.

Tejasmud, I did make sure to set the chain tensioner before spinning the engine so I'm not sure anything skipped the chain. In my mind it might be something nastier like a broken crank pin (i.e. that which holds the advancer in place.) but I'm hoping not.

We'll know more tomorrow.

Cheers all,
Spyug

[old_chopper]

It's tomorrow! Congratulations on the evening of enjoyment with friends, we all need that and usually put it too far down the list of things we "have" to do. All that said, now get to work on that powerplant so we can find out what's wrong!!!

[spyug]

Well I had my annual eyeball check this morning and the doc says the eyes are good and the one cataract I have is not growing and might indeed be shrinking. So that's good news and I should be able to line things up spot on once I figure what went haywire.

I have had a good nights refreshing sleep and didn't once dream about this confounding thing so I'm eager to get into it again. I was planning on taking the afternoon off but we've picked up some unexpected work so we need to grab it while we can.

I'll be suiting up and back out there after supper.

Back at you later.

Cheers,
spyug

[Octain]

Back at you later.


spyug

Um, its later..
Get that dang thang running!!

[Steve]

You KNOW we're not going to let you slack off on that thing.

.

[spyug]

Well I'm back and I am absolutely no further ahead.

As I mentioned I thought the timing mark on the crankshaft had shifted somehow but once I took the signal generator off I saw that I was mistaken. It was there lined up with the pointer.

The cam notches line up face to face and the cam marks 2 and 3 point straight up. The #1 piston sits at TDC. There is spark and when I hold my hand over the carb mouths I feel vacuum. If I crank for 10 seconds or so with my hand inplace it gets soaked with fuel so gas is going through the carbs but when I test the plugs they still seem dry.

Now I think I need a lesson in adjusting ignition timing as it seems that when these marks are all lined up the "trigger" on the crank shaft end is just clearing the left side pickup ( the 1 &4 I think). Should it not be pointing directly at the pickup and if so how would you move the trigger to point correctly. I see nothing in the manual to explain any of this but it seems to me that the ignitor is not getting a signal at the right time. Possibly the spark is firing off prematurely.

I'm grabbing at straws now.

Any thoughts folks?

As always I appreciate all input.

Cheers,
Spyug

[Nessism]

Where is the #1 mark on the exhaust cam sprocket pointing when the 1-4 T mark is aligned on the crank?

[mottyl]

You have been given advice by way better mechanics then I will ever be. So this is more of a "don't stop now reply".

I don't have an answer but I troubleshoot electronic problems on a regular basis and sometimes I have to do the following.

- leave it alone for a day

- start over (this means in my type of work go back to the start) ie: is it plugged in?



Good Luck

Chris

[spyug]

Thanks guys.

Ed, The #1 arrow is pointing to the front of the engine and directly parallel to the top edge of the head ( i.e. the gasket surface). Everything lines up at the top as the 2 and 3 marks point skyward while the notches at the cam ends point inward to each other. However, down at the marks on the advancer plate the T has moved about an 1/8th of an inch forward ( clockwise)of the pointer again. The T is no longer returning to the pointer as I believe it should .

When I had the advancer off, the mechanism seemed fine and the springs felt strong enough and not stretched.

I'm thinking it has got to be something to do with this or the alignment of that trigger to the pickups.

Tomorrow, in daylight, I'll pull apart the spare engine I have and look at how things line up on it. Perhaps that will show me whats going on.

Jeez this is maddening.

Cheers,
Spyug

[Ponderosa]

Vacum, but no fuel?

You have vacum and fuel at the carbs (hand wet), but plugs are dry? I would try the saran wrap over each carb, rubber band it, put a small hole in the center of the wrap, see if you can get some fuel to those plugs. If you have any spark, you should see/hear a bang at some point. It could be spark failure at point of ignition (under compression), but you are saying good blue spark when cranking? Check pickup gap, check compression, is fuel fresh? Man, that thing has to fire... Hope mine is trouble free when it comes time...