Twinpot Brake upgrade on 78 Skunk

The CBR900 F2 (95 era) rotor does not need any re-drilling for the holes to align. The spacing is correct. The existing holes just need to be widened. Otherwise this is a bolt on rotor.

[salty_monk]

Had a few requests for this info:

When fitting make sure to check all clearances carefully & turn the wheel by hand and listen for any scraping, feel for any interference. Be cautious on your first ride. If everything is fine the brakes will be MUCH stronger than you're used to.

Parts-
Brackets
Custom brackets. You will also need 2x 10mm x 40mm bolts, 2x flat washers, 2x lock washers, and 2x 10mm nuts for the bottom hole. Figure another $5 at your hardware store for these, but use at least a grade 8.8 (10.9 or higher preferred).
2 x M10 bolts 40-45mm in length. Stock caliper bolts can be used on caliper locations with blue loctite. These are for the lower bracket to fork leg connection.

Calipers
2 x calipers from various bikes, mainly Kawasaki models-
EX 250 Ninja 1988 to 2007 (single caliper on right side)
EX 500 Ninja 1994 to 2007 (single caliper on right side)
ZL 600 B1 Eliminator 1995 to 1996
ZR 550 B1/B2/B3 Zephyr 1990 1992 1993
ZX 600 C1-C9 Ninja 600 R 1988 to 1996
ZR 750 C1/C2/C3 1991 to 1993
ZX 750 F1/F2/F3/F4 Ninja 1987 to 1990
ZG 1000 A9-A20 Concours 1994 to 2006
ZX 1000 B1/B2/B3 Ninja ZX10 1988 to 1990

Suzuki also used this caliper on the VX800, GS500 and the GSX1100G

If buying Concours calipers, be sure they are the dual-piston ones from 94-06. The earlier 86-93 ones are single-piston and won't fit. Shop around by model on eBay, you'll find the prices vary a lot for the same thing. It's also usually cheaper to find a pair of calipers than buying them one at a time. Be sure you are getting left and right calipers and that each caliper has the bolt for the banjo fitting in it.

Pads
Your choice on these. Expect to spend anywhere from $20~40 per set. The EBC organic pads part number is FA129.

Rotors
2 x rotors, 295mm.
a) Solid GS rotor from a:
GS 550 C/N/EC/EN 77-79
GS 550 LT 80
GS 750 C/N (8 Valve) 78-79
GS 1000 C/N 78-79

b) Vented (one way, the slots will face the "wrong" direction on one side, but this is not known to be an operational problem) GS rotor from a:
GS 550 LX 81
GS 550 LZ 82
GS 550 TX 81
GS 650 GLX/GLZ/GLD 81-83 (NOT the 650G standard)
GS 750 TZ/TD (16 valve) 82-83 (NOT the 750E)

Make sure what you get is the larger (295mm) single rotor from the L/GL/TZ. The standards of this era used the smaller 276mm dual disks. Ask the seller to measure it before you buy- it will save a lot of headache when you get the wrong one.

You can use certain Honda CBR rotors, F3 or F4. On most the rotor should be re-drilled & the caliper spacer acts as the template for this (there are 2 small 6mm holes to line up & then put the 8mm holes straight through (preferably on a pillar drill).

CBR600 Rotors. F3, F4 & F4i. The 296mm dia ones. If you send me any links to ones you are looking to buy or pictures I can quickly tell you if they are the right ones.

-HONDA-CBR600-F4-US-ver-1999-2000-FS-99-00 – 78mm PCD

cbr600-600RR-F3-Front-wheel-rim-Brake-Disc-Caliper-Rotors-95-98-/

95-96-97-98-honda-cbr600-f3-cbr600f3

This is from the F3:




Hoses/plumbing


Stock Lines fit. Anything aftermarket that fits stock will fit.

Hoses/Speedo Drive Dust Cover

On models 1980 or newer you will need to cut 4-5mm off of the speedo Drive dust cover (There is a post about this).



Calipers

YEAR MODEL SIDE PART #

NINJA 250R
1988 EX250 F2 RH 43041-1225
1988 EX250 F2 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1989 EX250 F3 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1990 EX250 F4 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1992 EX250 F6 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1993 EX250 F7 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1994 EX250 F8 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1995 EX250 F9 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1996 EX250 F10 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1997 EX250 F11 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1998 EX250 F12 RH 43041-1320-DJ
1999 EX250 F13 RH 43041-1320-DJ
2000 EX250 F14 RH 43041-1320-DJ
2001 EX250 F15 RH 43041-1939-DJ
2002 EX250 F16 RH 43041-1939-DJ
2003 EX250 F17 RH 43041-1939-DJ
2004 EX250 F18 RH 43080-5013-DJ

EX500
1987 EX500 A1 LH 43041-1238
1988 EX500 A2 LH 43041-1238
1989 EX500 A3 LH 43041-1238
1990 EX500 A4 LH 43041-1375-DJ
1991 EX500 A5 LH 43041-1375-DJ
1992 EX500 A6 LH 43041-1375-DJ
1993 EX500 A7 LH 43041-1375-DJ

NINJA 500
1994 EX500 D1 RH 43041-1526-DJ
1995 EX500 D2 RH 43041-1526-DJ
1996 EX500 D3 RH 43041-1526-DJ
1997 EX500 D4 RH 43041-1526-DJ
1998 EX500 D5 RH 43041-1526-DJ
1999 EX500 D6 RH 43041-1526-DJ
2000 EX500 D7 RH 43041-1526-DJ
2001 EX500 D8 RH 43041-1747-DJ
2002 EX500 D9 RH 43041-1747-DJ
2003 EX500 D10 RH 43041-1940-DJ
2004 EX500 D11 RH 43080-5013-DJ
2005 EX500 D12 RH 43080-5013-DJ

ZEPHYR 550
1990 ZR550 B1 R/H 43041-1355-FE L/H 43041-1354-FE
1991 ZR550 B2 R/H 43041-1383-FE L/H 43041-1442-FE

NINJA 600R
1988 ZX600 C1 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ
1989 ZX600 C2 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ
1989 ZX600 C2 R/H 43041-1225 L/H 43041-1224
1990 ZX600 C3 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ
1991 ZX600 C4 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ
1992 ZX600 C5 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ
1993 ZX600 C6 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ
1994 ZX600 C7 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ
1995 ZX600 C8 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ
NO 96 MODEL
1997 ZX600 C10 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ

ELIMINATOR 600
1996 ZL600 B2 R/H 43041-1566-FE
1997 ZL600 B3 R/H 43041-1566-FE

TENGAI 650
1990 KL650 B2 L/H 43041-1300-DJ

NINJA 750R
1987 ZX750 F1 R/H 43041-1225 L/H 43041-1224
1988 ZX750 F2 R/H 43041-1225 L/H 43041-1224
1989 ZX750 F3 R/H 43041-1267-DJ L/H 43041-1266-DJ
1990 ZX750 F4 R/H 43041-1320-DJ L/H 43041-1319-DJ

ZEPHYR 750
1991 ZR750 C1 R/H 43041-1436-FE L/H 43041-1407-FE
1992 ZR750 C2 R/H 43041-1436-FE L/H 43041-1407-FE

CONCOURS 1000
1994 ZG1000 A9 R/H 43041-1436-GN L/H 43041-1407- GN
1995 ZG1000 A10 R/H 43041-1436-GN L/H 43041-1407- GN
NO 96 MODEL
1997 ZG1000 A12 R/H 43041-1436-FE L/H 43041-1407- FE
1998 ZG1000 A13 R/H 43041-1436-FE L/H 43041-1407- FE
1999 ZG1000 A14 R/H 43041-1436-FE L/H 43041-1407- FE
2000 ZG1000 A15 R/H 43041-1436-FE L/H 43041-1407- FE
2001 ZG1000 A16 R/H 43041-1765-FE L/H 43041-1764- FE
2002 ZG1000 A17 R/H 43041-1765-FE L/H 43041-1764- FE
2003 ZG1000 A18 R/H 43041-1933-FE L/H 43041-1932- FE
2004 ZG1000 A19 R/H 43080-5011-GN L/H 43080-5010-GN
2005 ZG1000 A20 R/H 43080-5011-GN L/H 43080-5010-GN

NINJA ZX10
1988 ZX1000 B1 R/H 43041-1267-DJ L/H 43041-1266-DJ
1989 ZX1000 B2 R/H 43041-1267-DJ L/H 43041-1266-DJ
1990 ZX1000 B3 R/H 43041-1267-DJ L/H 43041-1266-DJ

Picture of correct Caliper:

[salty_monk]

One back at ya..

Sending you a PM about the brake upgrade Salty...

Bugger! How about front fork transplant.. what best suits with least amount of engineering or am I being greedy again?

[salty_monk]

They are way too wide to work with the stock GS fork and wheel. I did make a bracket to fit them to GSXR 1100 RSU forks using a GSXR wheel though...

Hi, I'm hoping you have made or can make a bracket to suit 6 pot Tokicos off a zx9 as I have a set sitting in my shed?

QUOTE=salty_monk;1031849]Yes, all that stock stuff is coming down in price. These brackets don't work with those calipers though, you'd need a much more complex stepped bracket to make them fit, the 6 piston calipers would need cross drilled spacers as they're the ones that are radially mounted I believe.

These brackets work only with the Kawasaki Twinpot calipers. Sliding type. Not opposed piston.

Dan [/QUOTE]

[salty_monk]

"Feel" at the lever and less likely to squeal. The pads tend to wear even regardless in my experience. I believe the main reason they probably changed is for cost reasons. Less material & less SKU's, less material in the pad & a slightly easier pad swap (which helps dealer margins). They have one less piston & one less size O ring to stock.

I have ridden a couple of bikes with those later brakes fitted. Similar in every way. The bracket does not suit our purposes as well & they don't work with that bracket. Eventually I will look at them as an alternative when it becomes impossible to get good calipers but haven't had a chance as yet other than to have a quick look and see that it will be a 4 bolt bracket & will be more complex than what we currently have. (Read MORE EXPENSIVE )

Chuck, No, what I'm talking about is the 2 different types of twin pot calipers- the ones folks here are using, are the big and small piston version - while the other type is the matched sized piston twin pots. Lacking a pick Id say the one type in question would be the oem matched sized piston, twin pot calipers of an 07 Kawi EX650A7f.
Using CrazyClouds last posted pick- that type of twin pot caliper has the big piston hole on top and a lil one on the bottom- twin pot, but two different sized pistons.....the ones on an 07 Kawi EX650A7f have both pistons the same size....hope that helps explain my end of it.

Edit- yeah, sometimes it's hard to convey things from my head to the web...or others. Wasn't trying to talk down to you or anything.

[Chuck78]

what's the braking difference between the different sized twin pot calipers that everyone is using and the matched hole calipers?

my 07 Kawi EX650 MC came with it's matching calipers - which happen to be the same sized hole type. I'm told those aren't the ones of choice.

but it's my usual curiosity that makes me ask why this is?...why is the big and lil holed version so much better?

is that a typo and you meant master cylinder bores?if your caliper setup does not properly match your master cylinder, you will have either a very spongy lever feel since you need to be moving twice as much fluid as you are, or a very hard lever feel.

EDIT - Ahhh I see... your wording and terminology were confusing. I looked up those calipers. That year has similar calipers to the ones we use, but non-universal L and seperate R caliper brackets without the matching holes on top and bottom on the universal L or R brackets

Also, more likely what you are referring to is that both of the pistons are the larger diameter, unlike the ones with the "universal L &/or R" bracket that have a smaller piston and a larger piston in each caliper. The pads look nearly the same. That would be excellent if those calipers would also work with dan's brackets as well. They appear to have a steel bracket still, so they could also be chopped up and welded onto as I did on mine.

I am guessing that with a smaller&larger piston, you may get a little bit of brake shoe toe-in to avoid squeal/noise, but causing a little more uneven pad wear. with a larger piston pair in each caliper, I am speculating that if the master cylinder bore is the same as with the older style, then you will get more power out of the caliper but a softer lever feel with more lever travel needed to reach full braking. basically you would have easier effort on the lever, but more travel of the lever needed. So you would have more powerful brakes, but your lever would come back further. I suppose they could change the geometry of the lever and the leverage it exerts to alter that as well. Lots of variables here.

I gotta ask...what's the braking difference between the different sized twin pot calipers that everyone is using and the matched hole calipers?
Salty knows where this is going....along the way of procuring parts for my twin pot upgrade, my 07 Kawi EX650 MC came with it's matching calipers - which happen to be the same sized hole type. I'm told those aren't the ones of choice.....I get that....but it's my usual curiosity that makes me ask why this is?...why is the big and lil holed version so much better?

[salty_monk]

A bit more traditional looking than the CBR ones. A good option to have

[CrazyCloud]

Thanks, I wasn't sure how they would look but I think they gave it some class!

[steve murdoch]

That pic works fine.
Dual disc spoke wheels are my favourite look. I think those rotors look great.

[CrazyCloud]

Full shot for you Steve. I'll try to replace it with a better one when I get a chance.