GS 1000 engine in GSXR 1100 first gen frame?

[John Kat]

I like your project, but I hope you move quickly on it.
Yoshi would knock a project like this off in 7 days, and nights!
I lose interest with 2-3 year projects, can't take those builders serious.

So I should confess, I'm considering a much easier swap of just a GSXR 1127 block into my GSX750F.
The engine seller keeps sending me teaser emails…mercy mercy mercy.

I can't agree more: it's long winded but I suppose life is a long wait between the parts you need for the project and the work you need to outsource...
When and if, I'll be done with this project, I'll put a GSXR 1127 block in my GS 1000 frame maybe like this one : http://www.custom-wolf.de/english/ha...s/mocca-racer/
I'll follow your thread on your build and see how long it takes

[Buffalo Bill]

I like your project, but I hope you move quickly on it.
Yoshi would knock a project like this off in 7 days, and nights!
I lose interest with 2-3 year projects, can't take those builders serious.

So I should confess, I'm considering a much easier swap of just a GSXR 1127 block into my GSX750F.
The engine seller keeps sending me teaser emails…mercy mercy mercy.

[John Kat]

I finally got my frame back from the welder.
At least he did a good job.
The bottom rear engine mounts were extended but I still have to drill the hole in the right place plus some finishing touches.
Here's what it looks like:

[John Kat]

Jim, to be honest, I hadn't looked closely at your SSPB device.
My goal for this bike is to get rid of the OEM wiring loom, not to have flashing headlights and so on.
The neat part on the Motogadget box is that by simply temporarily earthing one of the inputs you can switch circuits on or off.
I believe your SSPB needs continuous input earthing to control a circuit?
They also have the possibility of commanding the turn signals in the same way.
They can apparently multiplex the control signals through only one wire by adding what they call the m-button?

http://motogadget.com/media/downloads/plan/fahrzeugschaltplan_mbutton_en.pdf

If I only wanted to upgrade one of my GS bikes, I would definitely go with your SSPB ( and I might still do so ) but for a bottom up build the m-Box seems the good choice ?

[posplayr]

As I'm still waiting for my frame to get back from the welding shop, I spent some time figuring out the electric wiring of the bike.
Has anyone heard of Motogadget?
It's a german company that builds all sorts of electronic devices for bikes and one of these devices is an electronic control box that allows a very simple wiring of all the controls needed on a bike.
It's of course all solid-state and it's works with neat handlebar switches that can serve multiple functions.
I'm quite tempted to use their m-Unit allthough it's not cheap at 259 Euros here in France.
Any experience out there?
Here's their site: http://motogadget.com/en/electrics/e...sicherung.html

It is expensive; I offer a cheaper alternative. Solid State Power Box and it is designed to fit in the same location as your existing fuse box which at about "4x2.3" the M-unit will not. See links in my signature.

They have improved the unit (V2) to a lower standby current 0.3 mA/ The SSPB is 2.0 mA for comparison the SH-775 is about 2.5mAmp as well. The Compufire is zero or thereabouts.

Reading the literature they have chosen to complicate the basic design by adding a lot of features that you can get from China for less than the cost of parts.

Tail light modulators are $5 an alarm is $11 on Ebay shipped from China.

My own thinking after contemplating the same was it is a lose lose proposition (more stuff in the box the more likely something will fail and nobody will buy it as it is too over the top). If he want absolute minimum weight for a street going bike and you want to get there by reducing wires then this is the way to go. Ultimately a fly by wire system CANBUS system will be smaller, but now you are really getting into the manufactures domain.

Much of my perspective was looking at this a product to develop. I even did a little market survey of an integrated system for light control that complimented the SSPB. Basically not much interest. I have never pursued MotoViz as there are too many cheap alternatives.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?219433-Moto-Viz-to-get-more-out-of-your-SSPB&highlight=motoviz

[John Kat]

As I'm still waiting for my frame to get back from the welding shop, I spent some time figuring out the electric wiring of the bike.
Has anyone heard of Motogadget?
It's a german company that builds all sorts of electronic devices for bikes and one of these devices is an electronic control box that allows a very simple wiring of all the controls needed on a bike.
It's of course all solid-state and it's works with neat handlebar switches that can serve multiple functions.
I'm quite tempted to use their m-Unit allthough it's not cheap at 259 Euros here in France.
Any experience out there?
Here's their site: http://motogadget.com/en/electrics/e...sicherung.html

[John Kat]

The frame has been spotwelded last friday ( sorry no pictures) and the guy will finish it by next monday.
I'm trying to get all the bits and pieces together to get it on its wheels before the end of the month...
I need to mock up the seat and the tank together and then the exhaust pipe before final assembly.
Here's the seat I'm contemplating to buy: http://www.poly26.com/produits/photo...29abmedium.jpg

[John Kat]

While I'm waiting for the frame to come back from the welder, I bought a fuel tank.
It wasn't cheap but the condition was very good with no rust whatsoever.
Not surprising considering it came from Greece.

[GregT]

The XR's used AP two pots but those 4 pots are a very good caliper...very good indeed.

[John Kat]

Put it on 17's. Back in the day, I was part of a team here which built an 1100 using the same frame as yours. We put it on Marvic 17's, ran it on methanol. With the late Robert Holden riding it set lap records wherever we ran it in NZ. Admittedly Robert was a specialist on the GSXR1100 - he instructed at a race school in Aussie using them - but they really handle very well on 17's. Much better choice of rubber too.

17" are the better choice but as I have some 18" available, I will try these first.
I can swop later on, if required, with the 17" that are on my Katana 1100.
I'm still undecided if I want to give the bike a period look or not?
For the period look I have some old 4 pot AP Racing ( AP 3369) calipers that were used I believe on some Yamaha TZ racers.
Are they any good?
Here are the bits and pieces for the bike:

[GregT]

Put it on 17's. Back in the day, I was part of a team here which built an 1100 using the same frame as yours. We put it on Marvic 17's, ran it on methanol. With the late Robert Holden riding it set lap records wherever we ran it in NZ. Admittedly Robert was a specialist on the GSXR1100 - he instructed at a race school in Aussie using them - but they really handle very well on 17's. Much better choice of rubber too.

[John Kat]

Are you going to cut pieces to cover the joint area from the other frame ? Done right it should finish up undetectable.
I think I'd have tweaked the lower rails into better alignment before making the lower middle mounts too, just my 2c...

Looks like it should be easier to get the motor in than the stock GS1000 frame.

I hadn't thought of that!
On the other hand there will be the weld that will remain visible but it should be doable.
Good idea for sure.
Taking the engine in and out of a GSXR 1100 frame is definitely much easier as one can unbolt the right hand lower frame rail.
In fact it's a must I believe as there isn't enough clearance above the cylinder head to move the engine out?
What's for sure is that you need to take the engine out to lift the cylinder head.
I agree that the junction piece between the lower rails doesn't look very sexy but on the other hand the protuding parts were most usefull when I had to to hammer the extensions out of the frame during the adjustment phase...

Beyond that, I'm wondering what wheels I should use?
GSXR 1100 18" 6 spoke or 3 spoke?
GSXR 1100 17" ?
I was planning to use a GSXR 1100 K front fork in any case as it was the first Suzuki to use cartridges in their forks: a massive improvement in roadholding!

[GregT]

Are you going to cut pieces to cover the joint area from the other frame ? Done right it should finish up undetectable.
I think I'd have tweaked the lower rails into better alignment before making the lower middle mounts too, just my 2c...

Looks like it should be easier to get the motor in than the stock GS1000 frame.

[John Kat]

I finalized the setting of the engine in the frame and it's now ready for welding...
In fact it feels so solid already that I'm pretty confident the frame will not twist on the road.

[John Kat]

John, I think the only way to do this is to have a welder that also has a jig. That frame is going to warp when heated enough to melt the aluminum.

Alternatively you might figure a way to brace the individual members relative to the main mounting points to avoid warp.

My only experience with this was when I had bar clamps welded to by GSXR top clamp. The first time I did it I had a spare set of forks and brought the welders my forks with dual top clamps and fork braces all installed to keep the top triple from moving when welded. The Triple came back and it was all nice and straight.

After my git off on Camino Cielo, I bent that top triple and needed to get a new triple rewelded. This time I forgot about the extra clamping from the first time around and had it welded. When I got it back it was way way off. Fortunately I was able to manhandle it back into position. Point in that aluminum will be extremely malleable when it is hot and will shift all over in an entirely different way than steel would. Imagine trying to weld sheet metal, it will warp all over.

I'm not sure how much welding with just the cases in place will help, but that is a minimum. Perhaps, having a sacrificial set of cases that have enough room to make the cuts while the cases are installed. You don't even want to cut the frame unsupported. With full support you can also weld without worrying about the whole mess moving.

The more I think about your road test on the frame is going to be pretty meaningless. Any wheel alignment can compensate for frame twist that you will not be accounting for, and the road tests can't possibly account for any warping from the welding? So what the point? Keep it as straight as possible with bracing and then cut and weld it. Live with the results which should not be too bad.

You are most probably right!
In both frames there was some remaining tension that got released when I cut the lower beam...
Luckily as the top frame beams were cut in the middle of a straight line, it will be possible to clamp the half beams on a flat surface and then weld them together.
This will be done with the engine cases bolted in place just like on the prototype.
In any case, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Many thanks for the advice!