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1&4 not firing; 2&3 fire; switch cables all 4 fire.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Paul's Zuki
  • Start date Start date
P

Paul's Zuki

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So after having compression issues and figuring all that out. Now I have ignition issues.

I got the bike on and do a touch test on the exhaust and notice pipes 1 & 4 are warm to the touch and 3 & 4 are hot to the touch as should be. checked the sparks igniting and of course 1 & 4 are not firing. open up points cover and do points maintenance and make sure all spacing is within spec.

I noted earlier in another thread that as I turn the crankshaft, while the bike is on 'on' that when the points seperate they spark a little particularly 2 & 3 but not 1 & 4.

I started doing some troubleshooting and the book mentioned to place the coil on the other wire of the one not firing to check and see if I had a bad coil or if the line was bad...................well, to my amazement after doing that all plugs ignite. what gives?
 
Sounds like the inner conductor is starting to go, when you bend it one way it works, but if you bend it another way it doesn't?
 
no no bending. I actually switched the cables that connect to the coils. I took cables that were connected to the coils and plugs I knew were firing and attached those to the ones I knew weren't and took the ones that weren't and attached those to the coils that I knew worked, basically to try to simulate if there was a problem in the coil or in the line. that's when I found that all four fired when I did that.
 
Very confusing. So you switched your inputs to your coils from 1 & 4 to 2 & 3. and the same goes for the plugs, and now you got spark on all plugs.
I would think if you figure out which plug wires should be changed to which cylinders it should run, right?
Could be you just had a bad connection, putting them back as they were,
do you get spark on all cylinders.
Don't know what kind of bike were talking about, but I just checked mine 2 days ago. There are two different places where the coils connect. Two wires at the coil itself to a about a 9 inch long pair of wires, and those two wires connect with a bullet connector to the harness. Mine were not fully connected (snapped together, it's a wonder the bike ran). Sounds like you had a loose connection and reversing connections corrected that but now your connections are in the wrong place.
 
I would not agree that the connections are in the wrong place, they are merely in the other place. It does not matter whether the coil on the left fires 1&4 or 2&3, as long as the cylinder pairing is correct.
 
koolaid_kid said:
I would not agree that the connections are in the wrong place, they are merely in the other place. It does not matter whether the coil on the left fires 1&4 or 2&3, as long as the cylinder pairing is correct.
Click to expand...

And the ignition timing.

If your bike is runs when the 2&3 coil is hooked to the 1&4 plugs, then your ignition timing must be wildly out of whack.

Or are you just getting spark on the plugs against the engine block?
 
No, let me try to explain for the OP (correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I understand.)
He left the physical coils bolted to the frame. He moved both the 12V wires and the inputs from the points from the left coil to the right coil, and vice versa. He then moved the spark plug wires over as well and started the bike.
 
koolaid_kid said:
No, let me try to explain for the OP (correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I understand.)
He left the physical coils bolted to the frame. He moved both the 12V wires and the inputs from the points from the left coil to the right coil, and vice versa. He then moved the spark plug wires over as well and started the bike.
Click to expand...

This is the way I understand it, he swapped the input wires from the coil that feeds 2 & 3 to 1&4 and vice versa, leaving the coils bolted to his frame. Then he swapped the spark plugs (not spark wires) from 1 & 4 to 2 & 3 and vice versa. Then he turned his engine over and had spark on all four plugs. No where did he say he started it, so maybe he could just swap the 1 & 4 spark plug leads to 2 & 3 and vice versa and his engine should have spark on all for cylinders and run.

Now, "Who's on first!"
 
A valid point, Steve, he did not say he fired it up. However, he did say "I took cables that were connected to the coils and plugs I knew were firing and attached those to the ones I knew weren't". This indicates that he swapped plug wires, not plugs. OP, feel free to chime in.
 
koolaid_kid said:
A valid point, Steve, he did not say he fired it up. However, he did say "I took cables that were connected to the coils and plugs I knew were firing and attached those to the ones I knew weren't". This indicates that he swapped plug wires, not plugs. OP, feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you got it right here. I tried to turn on last night, but my battery died, so it sitting charging. So assuming now that all 4 plugs are firing, but I have switched corresponding leads to corresponding piston, I should get timed ignition where it's supposed to be.
 
koolaid_kid said:
A valid point, Steve, he did not say he fired it up. However, he did say "I took cables that were connected to the coils and plugs I knew were firing and attached those to the ones I knew weren't". This indicates that he swapped plug wires, not plugs. OP, feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...

Why, I must say I must've got my wires crossed in the interpretation somewhere, but since he only swapped the plug wires how did he know all four were firing?
1. pull the plugs, look for spark?
2. start bike up, feel for warm pipes?
3. grab ahold of plug wire and turn over engine?
4. have a friend grab ahold of plug wire and turn over engine?
 
I've done the first three myself, and my dad tricked me into doing number 4. ;);)
Seriously.
 
koolaid_kid said:
I've done the first three myself, and my dad tricked me into doing number 4. ;);)
Seriously.
Click to expand...

So, was it getting voltage? :eek:

I once worked at Disney World in their maintenance complex. We had a trailer of those little grand prix racers for rebuild. They use a jig to keep the disk brakes from grabing, but it also opens the throttle wide open. That way with the jig in place you can push them around. I decided to pull the starter cord on one just unloaded off the trailer, and it started right up, wide open! :eek: I jumped on it and got control and made numerous laps around the complex trying to figure out how to stop it :o. Finally in desparation I decided to do what I was hoping to avoid. Pull off the spark plug cap. Whoa!
That was fun! :lol:
 
:| Found problem. connection was loose deep in the wire harness. It wasn't until this past Friday, I was cool and calm and started to undo the harness as my 'next step' in finding the problem when I come across and it's loose. WTF?! Anyways. all firing and my points are now within spec at least. It's in the shop now getting carbs worked on. I don't have anymore time to finish it to be ready for a car & motorcycle show in my hometown in 2 weeks, so yeah. Should have it back running top notch.
 
well done paule, the most common problem is loose connection or rusty connector
 
Paul's Zuki said:
:| Found problem. connection was loose deep in the wire harness. It wasn't until this past Friday, I was cool and calm and started to undo the harness as my 'next step' in finding the problem when I come across and it's loose. WTF?! Anyways. all firing and my points are now within spec at least. It's in the shop now getting carbs worked on. I don't have anymore time to finish it to be ready for a car & motorcycle show in my hometown in 2 weeks, so yeah. Should have it back running top notch.
Click to expand...

I went through the same thing with my GS850 over the weekend. I haven't ridden it much this summer because of the FZ1 , and when trying to start it only cylinders 1 & 4 heated up. Cleaned & checked points gap, new plugs installed, no change. Swapped the plug wires around as well as the lead coming to the coils and it still fired 1 & 4, so it wasn't the coil. Swapped condensors and that didn't do it. Disconnected & reconnected all contacts in the path from points to coils, and that did it! Runs like a 32 year old 600lb bike again! Moral of the story...clean all connections and life will be great!;)
 
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Sure hope you at least look over them when you get the carbs back. I'd hate to hear about how they ripped you off.
 
Well, I trust these guys on the carbs and don't really have the time anymore dealing with other pressing projects. However I just found out by them that the fuel mixture screw tip has broken in the carb itself. well, I need to get them and remove it so they can continue the work. I'm so stressed these days with all kinds of problems it's ridiculous. I'm ready to burst.
 
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