1150 EF updating project

[Blower]

Some new parts I have made . Belt guard from aluminium , I "glued" parts together with the Alutite solder . Not the easiest way to join parts together , but it works .

The belt guard on it?s place and modified and painted intake manifold support straps :

Chain guard :

 

[drhach]

Now you just have to wait for the snow to melt.

 

[Blower]

Now you just have to wait for the snow to melt.

In normal winter yes , but in this winter here in south Finland is been snow only a few weeks . I only need to wait when the weather becomes warmer .

 

[Kris V]

WOW:shock: lookin great dude in fact ,outstanding! Looks like that tire gets pretty close to your manifold pipe.

 

[lecroy]

The plenum brackets look much nicer and go with the look of the bike. Very nice looking package. How's the EFI coming along?

 

[Blower]

The plenum brackets look much nicer and go with the look of the bike. Very nice looking package. How's the EFI coming along?

EFI specialist is adjusted it today , but it?s not so easy to get it idling smoothly .

 

[courier11sec]

This is my favorite project bike. What a fine job you've done!

 

[49er]

EFI specialist is adjusted it today , but it?s not so easy to get it idling smoothly .

Some of your problem will be as a result of your stock cam overlap. You will be pushing a lot of raw fuel out the exhaust, at and just above idle. You may need to change your cams to supercharge speced ones.
Great project, you'll have it sorted soon.

 

[Ironriot]

Some of your problem will be as a result of your stock cam overlap. You will be pushing a lot of raw fuel out the exhaust, at and just above idle. You may need to change your cams to supercharge speced ones.
Great project, you'll have it sorted soon.

Which explains why race cars need an idle of 2000 rpm or more. Learn something new everyday. Thanks

 

[Blower]

Some of your problem will be as a result of your stock cam overlap. You will be pushing a lot of raw fuel out the exhaust, at and just above idle. You may need to change your cams to supercharge speced ones.
Great project, you'll have it sorted soon.

Cams are not a problem . I have degreed cams , intake 2 degr. later and exhaust 2 degr. earlier to make overlap smaller .
At idle there is nothing to "push raw fuel to exhaust" more than normally aspirated engine .
At idle in inside of intake manifold is vacum . Problem is different vacum before and after supercharger .
Between throttlebody and supercharger is more vacum than after supercharger + intake manifold volume is big . These things together makes idle "sailing" between 1000 - 3000 r/min .
Now I need to build a by-pass line with vacum operated valve over the supercharger .
Does anybody know , where to buy those by-pass valves (Eaton) ?

 

[lecroy]

Does anybody know , where to buy those by-pass valves (Eaton) ?

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/bypass.htm

Seems like matching a blower to a motor is a little more tricky than originally thought? You will get it figured out soon enough! Good luck!

 

[Blower]

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/bypass.htm

Seems like matching a blower to a motor is a little more tricky than originally thought? You will get it figured out soon enough! Good luck!

Yes , it?s a bit more complicated than I think . I?m going to desing and make one special bypass valve , because all aftermarket bypass valves are too big .

 

[onetoomany]

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu?????????

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu?????????

SPEACHLESS....THAT IS AMAZING I HAD LIKE 4 HEART ATTACKS AND CREAMED THE PANTS ATLEAST TWICE WHILE LOOKING AT THIS THREAD:shock:
AMAZING MAN, F*ING AMAZING. GREAT JOB!! I CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE WHEN ITS DONE AND HOW ITS RIDING FOR YOU.

 

[lecroy]

Yes , it?s a bit more complicated than I think . I?m going to desing and make one special bypass valve , because all aftermarket bypass valves are too big .

I was wondering about this when you started. Would a simple reed valve work. Or, why not just over drive the thing and bleed the pressure on the other end? Not a real clean way to handle it.

 

[Blower]

I was wondering about this when you started. Would a simple reed valve work. Or, why not just over drive the thing and bleed the pressure on the other end? Not a real clean way to handle it.

A reed valve does not work , because at idle the flowing direction is from pressure side to suction side ( actually there is vacum in both sides but bigger in suction side ) .
In "off cruising speeds" and acceleration valve should to be closed .
If I ever going to build an other supercharged bike , I?m going to put a throttle in pressure side of supercharger .

 

[lecroy]

A reed valve does not work , because at idle the flowing direction is from pressure side to suction side ( actually there is vacum in both sides but bigger in suction side ) .
In "off cruising speeds" and acceleration valve should to be closed .
If I ever going to build an other supercharged bike , I?m going to put a throttle in pressure side of supercharger .

Sorry about that, went back and reread your original post...

"Between throttlebody and supercharger is more vacum than after supercharger + intake manifold volume is big "

That said I agree on the reed. I was thinking it was backwards for some reason. Can't you underdrive the blower to get a better match? Do you feed both pressures (after throttle plate and blower outlet) to the controller? Seems like if you knew ambient pressure, these two, plate position you could get it to control as is. I was looking over a book I have (very old) that talks a bit about what your trying to do. There is never any mention of trying to balance out the pressures with a bypass. These were very simple systems. No electronics.
Of course they may have ran like total crap as well.

 

[SDK]

Are there any recent pics of the pics out there. This thing sounds like a "BAMF" Bad A$% Mother F@*$&$%. , a real monster from start to finish. Good luck with the build hope you haven's thrown the wrence at it yet and walked away.

Shane

 

[Blower]

Sorry about that, went back and reread your original post...

"Between throttlebody and supercharger is more vacum than after supercharger + intake manifold volume is big "

That said I agree on the reed. I was thinking it was backwards for some reason. Can't you underdrive the blower to get a better match? Do you feed both pressures (after throttle plate and blower outlet) to the controller? Seems like if you knew ambient pressure, these two, plate position you could get it to control as is. I was looking over a book I have (very old) that talks a bit about what your trying to do. There is never any mention of trying to balance out the pressures with a bypass. These were very simple systems. No electronics.
Of course they may have ran like total crap as well.

Underdriving the blower does not help , it?s still there .
This is "borrowed" from Corky Bell?s book Supercharged! :
Cruise conditions and other normally aspirated operational modes can suffer from undesired pumping losses .
When cruising about 15 inches of vacuum , the system without bypass valve will create about 20 inches of vacuum between the throttle and blower , because the Roots is pulling from throttle plate . This "boosting" is a constant and unnecessary waste of power and also produces a small amount of heat .
Although the heat is not too harmful , the bypass valve fixes this situation , allowing the Roots (or any other blower mounted after the throttle) to "freewheel" by pumping back into its intake side , balancing the pressure between the manifold and throttlebody .

Bypass is vacuum operated and get its vacuum from intake manifold .

MAP sensor got it?s singnal from intake manifold only .
Only bypass valve can help to get idle more normal . Then I can start with ECU mapping .

 

[lecroy]

Underdriving the blower does not help , it?s still there .
This is "borrowed" from Corky Bell?s book Supercharged! :
Cruise conditions and other normally aspirated operational modes can suffer from undesired pumping losses .
When cruising about 15 inches of vacuum , the system without bypass valve will create about 20 inches of vacuum between the throttle and blower , because the Roots is pulling from throttle plate . This "boosting" is a constant and unnecessary waste of power and also produces a small amount of heat .
Although the heat is not too harmful , the bypass valve fixes this situation , allowing the Roots (or any other blower mounted after the throttle) to "freewheel" by pumping back into its intake side , balancing the pressure between the manifold and throttlebody .

Bypass is vacuum operated and get its vacuum from intake manifold .

MAP sensor got it?s singnal from intake manifold only .
Only bypass valve can help to get idle more normal . Then I can start with ECU mapping .

"Underdriving the blower does not help , it?s still there ." You know this because you tried it? Or you think this is the problem because you read it?

Would be interesting to hear it run. The key in the book is suffer. The bypass seems pretty common now, but I can find no mention of it in older books I have. I would doubt that this means that older motors could not idle. I would not be surprized if they did not idle as good as a modern factory engine. Can you get your engine to idle at all? How much does it wander? Sure you not fighting some PID tune problem?

Turning the compressor at a slower rate would drop the pressure in the manifold. On one extream, say it does not turn at all and the seals are good. There will be no flow and the pressure on the compressors outlet will drop. The outlet side of the throttle plate in this case would be at ambient (much higher pressure). At some combination it would seem you could reach a steady state condition for a given speed. Seems like it would then be a question of the gain of the compressor and how well that matched.

You could always gut the blower. LOL.

 

[lecroy]

Underdriving the blower does not help , it?s still there .
This is "borrowed" from Corky Bell?s book Supercharged! :
Cruise conditions and other normally aspirated operational modes can suffer from undesired pumping losses .
When cruising about 15 inches of vacuum , the system without bypass valve will create about 20 inches of vacuum between the throttle and blower , because the Roots is pulling from throttle plate . This "boosting" is a constant and unnecessary waste of power and also produces a small amount of heat .
Although the heat is not too harmful , the bypass valve fixes this situation , allowing the Roots (or any other blower mounted after the throttle) to "freewheel" by pumping back into its intake side , balancing the pressure between the manifold and throttlebody .

Bypass is vacuum operated and get its vacuum from intake manifold .

MAP sensor got it?s singnal from intake manifold only .
Only bypass valve can help to get idle more normal . Then I can start with ECU mapping .

"Underdriving the blower does not help , it?s still there ." You know this because you tried it? Or you think this is the problem because you read it?

Would be interesting to hear it run. The key in the book is suffer. The bypass seems pretty common now, but I can find no mention of it in older books I have. I would doubt that this means that older motors could not idle. I would not be surprized if they did not idle as good as a modern factory engine. Can you get your engine to idle at all? How much does it wander? Sure you not fighting some PID tune problem?

Turning the compressor at a slower rate would drop the pressure in the manifold. On one extream, say it does not turn at all and the seals are good. There will be no flow and the pressure on the compressors outlet will drop. The outlet side of the throttle plate in this case would be at ambient (much higher pressure). At some combination it would seem you could reach a steady state condition for a given speed. Seems like it would then be a question of the gain of the compressor and how well that matched.

You could always gut the blower. LOL.