1150 EF updating project

[Blower]

"Underdriving the blower does not help , it?s still there ." You know this because you tried it? Or you think this is the problem because you read it?

Would be interesting to hear it run. The key in the book is suffer. The bypass seems pretty common now, but I can find no mention of it in older books I have. I would doubt that this means that older motors could not idle. I would not be surprized if they did not idle as good as a modern factory engine. Can you get your engine to idle at all? How much does it wander? Sure you not fighting some PID tune problem?

Turning the compressor at a slower rate would drop the pressure in the manifold. On one extream, say it does not turn at all and the seals are good. There will be no flow and the pressure on the compressors outlet will drop. The outlet side of the throttle plate in this case would be at ambient (much higher pressure). At some combination it would seem you could reach a steady state condition for a given speed. Seems like it would then be a question of the gain of the compressor and how well that matched.

You could always gut the blower. LOL.

If you look at the older sc. engines intake manifolds , I?m shure those are not so big in volume .
I found in Swedish super bike forum a topic , where someone ask about to put sc. in suzuki .
The guy who answered , was mounted a sc in his GSX R 1100 in early nineties .
It was with one big carb before sc and sc was mounted about same place where I have mine .
He wrote : it was impossible to adjust idle and every launch was a thrill ... wheelie or burnout . They try to underdrive it , but no help .
Other case was in Mustang forum . There someone ask , how to get his mustang with sc to idle well . Answer was bypass valve , what he doesn?t installed from the beginning . After bypass valve it was like na. car in normal driving .

Suzuki is idling , when warmed up , between 1000 and 3000 r/min

Why try to turn compressor a slower rate ? Lower sc r/min = less power .
When engine is idling better , I maybe overdrive sc more .LOL

 

[lecroy]

Suzuki is idling , when warmed up , between 1000 and 3000 r/min

Why try to turn compressor a slower rate ? Lower sc r/min = less power .
When engine is idling better , I maybe overdrive sc more .LOL

From watching the old blown engines I bet they hunt 2000 RPM. Does seem a little much for a motorcycle. LOL.

Yea, I was thinking if you just wanted the looks it could be a hollow blower. LOL. Bypass makes a lot of sense but seems like a good control system could make it work without. But a lot of sensors and software may be at hand to do it. The little mega squirt may have to be upgraded. Making a diesel idle has similar problems.

Lower sc r/min = less power, I have been wondering this from the start. How much power do you figure you can really use on a street bike like this? I will very humbly state that I can not ride my GSXR to it's full potential (or close) and it's rated for 150HP. So lower sc r/min = less power = safer = less fuel demands = easier on parts. Damm, sound like my mom now...

Will very much enjoy hearing how it rides on the street.

 

[Blower]

From watching the old blown engines I bet they hunt 2000 RPM. Does seem a little much for a motorcycle. LOL.

Yea, I was thinking if you just wanted the looks it could be a hollow blower. LOL. Bypass makes a lot of sense but seems like a good control system could make it work without. But a lot of sensors and software may be at hand to do it. The little mega squirt may have to be upgraded. Making a diesel idle has similar problems.

Will very much enjoy hearing how it rides on the street.

The man who built my megasquirt (Arttu) and I try to get it idle on last sunday .
We work with it 5 hours and without better idle than 1000 - 2500 r/min .
In data log O2 value was ok , but manifold pressure and rpm wandering .
Many fuel injected cars have a idle valve which fixes idle problems . Megasquirt supports this kind of valves and there is tuning table with PID for idle valves .
But , to install idle valve + more cables and electronics or vacuum controlled bypass .
I think bypass is easier (but I?m more mechanical than electrical man LOL ) .

 

[lecroy]

I think bypass is easier (but I?m more mechanical than electrical man LOL ) .

I have to agree. The electronics and software could be a real pain to get working.

If I use Terrys ballpark numbers for my motor, its about 100HP + 7HP X PSI. So with 10PSI, say 170HP. This is a bit conservative. On line calculators put it in the 220HP range. I could care less, but my point is I weight in at 730 LBs was running 159MPH trap speeds in the 1/4 mile from a dead stop with only 10PSI (its all in the clutch). I am guessing you and your bike will be a little lighter than mine plus you have a smaller tire. Just don't get yourself killed on that fancy thing. We like having you around this site!!

 

[Blower]

I have to agree. The electronics and software could be a real pain to get working.

If I use Terrys ballpark numbers for my motor, its about 100HP + 7HP X PSI. So with 10PSI, say 170HP. This is a bit conservative. On line calculators put it in the 220HP range. I could care less, but my point is I weight in at 730 LBs was running 159MPH trap speeds in the 1/4 mile from a dead stop with only 10PSI (its all in the clutch). I am guessing you and your bike will be a little lighter than mine plus you have a smaller tire. Just don't get yourself killed on that fancy thing. We like having you around this site!!

I have calculated estimated power this way :

Stock power 123 hp + 10 hp from fuel injection = 133 hp
133 hp x ( boost 0.5 bar + atmospehric pressure 1 bar ) = 199.5 hp
199.5 hp - "blower power" 16 hp = 183.5 hp in crankshaft .
Maybe more if everything are in "harmonic balans" ( exhaust & intake lentghs , camshafts , ignition , cyl. head porting , etc ) .

Rear tire I have is Michelin pilot power 180/55/17 .
I try to be wery careful when I ride that bike .

 

[lecroy]

That would be very good for a stock motor. I think they rated my 83 at 108. Even with the larger bore, the CR is so low its most likely below stock. Not sure why fuel injection would net anything. Certainly more flexible and smoother. If you can make 200HP with it, I suspect the stock clutch will have a bit of a time. The motor I am running now has no head work, other than springs and valve job. Springs I use now are massive compared to the last heavy duty ones I had. Suspect your intake will have the same problem. Cams are pretty much stock. Put most of the money in the clutch, crank and transmission to try and get it to live.

Any plans to get the bike on a dyno to get the setup close? Would be cool to see what sort of numbers it comes up with.

 

[Johnny K]

You guys (Blower and Lecroy) amaze me. To even fathom what you guys are talking about just blows my ****ing mind!! I love just hearing you guys talk about specs and everything else. I am in awe and have the utmost respect for you guys and everyone else who understands what they are talking about. There is my 2 cents and keep doing what you guys are doing!!!!!!!!" :-D

 

[Blower]

That would be very good for a stock motor. I think they rated my 83 at 108. Even with the larger bore, the CR is so low its most likely below stock. Not sure why fuel injection would net anything. Certainly more flexible and smoother. If you can make 200HP with it, I suspect the stock clutch will have a bit of a time. The motor I am running now has no head work, other than springs and valve job. Springs I use now are massive compared to the last heavy duty ones I had. Suspect your intake will have the same problem. Cams are pretty much stock. Put most of the money in the clutch, crank and transmission to try and get it to live.

Any plans to get the bike on a dyno to get the setup close? Would be cool to see what sort of numbers it comes up with.

I have to get bike on dyno , if I like to get it legal . Here in Finland if you put turbo or sc in your car or motorcycle you have to show that you haven?t got more than 20 % gain on power . So I need to make at least two dyno run , one for authorities and other to get motor tuned to max .
I bought nearly new MTC clutch basket from ebay , so it should last as well as new oem hub I have . Clutch spring are stronger than originals .

 

[Hector Penalosa]

Intake manifold allmost finished :

Sweet sweet sweet!!!!

 

[lecroy]

I bought nearly new MTC clutch basket from ebay , so it should last as well as new oem hub I have . Clutch spring are stronger than originals .

I was thinking that the clutch would slip more than anything.

Once you start getting some good power out of it on the Dyno you will know. Heck the tire may not come close to sticking so the clutch may not be a problem.

20 % gain on power, LOL!! Thats only 22HP for the 83. Do you have to pay them to look the other way when you crank it up? Or do you just tell them it was 200HP stock?

 

[Blower]

I was thinking that the clutch would slip more than anything.

Once you start getting some good power out of it on the Dyno you will know. Heck the tire may not come close to sticking so the clutch may not be a problem.

20 % gain on power, LOL!! Thats only 22HP for the 83. Do you have to pay them to look the other way when you crank it up? Or do you just tell them it was 200HP stock?

No , I just need to show them the dyno run sheet ( the right one LOL ) .
It?s kind of stupid system . If I buy an original Harley sportster with massive 60 hp and then I port the heads , more comp. , better carb & exhaust and buell racing cams . It?s nearly 100 hp and it?s legal .
Same bike and turbo & same 100 hp = illegal bike .
And more fine things from Finland . If your bike or car is post -90 modell and equipped with aftermarket sc or turbo , you need to run acceptable emission run . But here in Finland is not any company who can or will do it !!
You have to go to Sweden with your bike or car and make that emission run there .
Expencive ? No ... if about 1200 $ is not expensive .

 

[lecroy]

Is that US dollars or EUROs? Both ways, thats pretty bad. Is there any special provisions for show bikes or antiques? Wonder with your bike being a pre 90 model if it would matter?

Here, depends on the state. Insurance is the biggest problem I have.

 

[ArttuH]

Actually the emission test run in Sweden costs close to 3000 Euros, as far as I know. And price is the same regardless if you pass or fail the test I think that here in Finland are couple of companies that do emission tests for cars but they don't have suitable equipments for bikes.

Yep, vehicles are under special care of the state in here. We haven't yet talked about vehicle taxation and it's consequences :-D (Better to not start at all.) It really needs a bit more studying and determination if you are going to get some more radical modifications approved for the road.

 

[skip]

That would be very good for a stock motor. I think they rated my 83 at 108. Even with the larger bore, the CR is so low its most likely below stock. Not sure why fuel injection would net anything. Certainly more flexible and smoother. If you can make 200HP with it, I suspect the stock clutch will have a bit of a time. The motor I am running now has no head work, other than springs and valve job. Springs I use now are massive compared to the last heavy duty ones I had. Suspect your intake will have the same problem. Cams are pretty much stock. Put most of the money in the clutch, crank and transmission to try and get it to live.

Any plans to get the bike on a dyno to get the setup close? Would be cool to see what sort of numbers it comes up with.

My 1150 had 1229 cc, cam motion g-4 cams, 38 flat slides, oversize valves,head porting ETC. With the nitrous it was near 200 hp. with a fresh clutch and heavy duty springs it ran 9.97 @149.7 mph on the little bias ply 130 stock tire no wheelie bars and stock chassis with a 720 lb combined rider and bike weight. After only a few thousand street miles on the clutch, and about twenty passes over a few month period, the springs were not enough to keep the clutch from slipping when I sprayed it. I would suggest a slipper clutch or always keep yours fresh.

 

[lecroy]

Actually the emission test run in Sweden costs close to 3000 Euros, as far as I know.

It really needs a bit more studying and determination if you are going to get some more radical modifications approved for the road.

Long time no hear.. How is that bike of yours running now?

Dang, thats more than my 1100 is worth!! I take it that you can build them for race use and not have to pay these high prices?


Man Skip, that's a lot of power on a stock bike. It's always fun to talk HP numbers. I used to run a turbo on my 1100 street bike. That thing was a death trap with much less power!!

 

[ArttuH]

Long time no hear.. How is that bike of yours running now?

Dang, thats more than my 1100 is worth!! I take it that you can build them for race use and not have to pay these high prices?

My GS has been on hold last six months due to house building. But last weekend I started to work on it again. The wiring harness is real pain to make but now it's close to ready. I hope to fire her up quite soon.

Yep, that emission test is ridiculous expensive, even compared to price of a new bike. Fortunately it's not needed for race use, only if you want your charged bike road legal.

 

[Blower]

I get my special bypass valve finished . It takes 8 hours to made it .
It?s spring loaded and vacuum/pressure operated . Pipe diam. is 1" .

 

[RotaryRodder]

very nice, what did you put inside of that?

 

[Blower]

very nice, what did you put inside of that?

Two pistons , piston rod , spring , o-rings , M5 nuts & washers and grease .

 

[skip]

Long time no hear.. How is that bike of yours running now?

Dang, thats more than my 1100 is worth!! I take it that you can build them for race use and not have to pay these high prices?


Man Skip, that's a lot of power on a stock bike. It's always fun to talk HP numbers. I used to run a turbo on my 1100 street bike. That thing was a death trap with much less power!!

The bike was a a pain to get down the track with the spray. It would wiggle wobble all the way down the track. I added a steering stabilizer and it helped a little. If you sprayed too early it would either spin or snap wheelie. When I ran the 149 mph pass I spayed the top of second gear and on up. It stuck for a change. I often wonder what the bike would have been capable of with a slick and a wheelie bar.