1150 EF updating project

[lecroy]

Good to see both you guys posting again. Sounds like you have made some good progress as well. I had to do the conversion to PSI LOL. I would think the bike would be very driveable if you like the thrill of staring down death, and should live a long time at this pressure.

I think that skunk bike is using some 1.1 bar or so plus he sprays nitrous off the line. That poor little 650 twin was never meant to make that sort of power. He breaks a lot of parts and keeps beefing things up.

Post some new pictures of your fabrication work. Always top notch stuff!

 

[Blower]

Here are some pics :

The dump valve and the throttle body

Throttle body is from BMW 1150 , "slightly" modified and in it?s injector place is
home made "choke" .

And the whole bike

 

[rapidray]

WOW!!! VERY nice workmanship! Ray.

 

[drhach]

I thought I recognized that throttle. If I may ask, how did you get the 4-wire TP sensor to work? I have one that I'm trying to fit to a project of mine, but the 4-wire TP sensor is not linear. I have resorted to trying to fit a Bosch 3-wire unit to the Throttle Body. You are using a megasquirt ECU right?

 

[Blower]

I thought I recognized that throttle. If I may ask, how did you get the 4-wire TP sensor to work? I have one that I'm trying to fit to a project of mine, but the 4-wire TP sensor is not linear. I have resorted to trying to fit a Bosch 3-wire unit to the Throttle Body. You are using a megasquirt ECU right?

TPS is from Volvo 750 . I made 1" long adapter shaft and a adapter plate to get it fit to the BMW?s throttle .
ECU is a Mini Megasquirt , made by Arttu H .

 

[drhach]

So you adapted a 3-wire sensor? That was the solution that I came up with as well. I'm using a similar Bosch unit from a Saab. I didn't really see a way to get the 4-wire unit to work either.

 

[Blower]

So you adapted a 3-wire sensor? That was the solution that I came up with as well. I'm using a similar Bosch unit from a Saab. I didn't really see a way to get the 4-wire unit to work either.

It?s a 3-wire sensor . The Volvo sensor I have could be similar as yours .
Mine is not a original Bosch it?s H?go?s "replica" , but it works .
What ECU you have ?

 

[drhach]

I have the megasquirt, I believe it is a Version 2. It is the last version before spark control became an option. It is actually intended for my old BMW (R90), but I am thinking more and more that I might like to EFI my GS1000 too. One thing at a time though.

 

[Blower]

Project continues . Target is to get more power .
Cylinder block is bored to +1 mm oversize pistons ( SGP ) , plenum modified ( less volume and better flow ) , a ported supercharger and more boost after break in .
I?m going to continue with original cams , which are now adjusted :
intake 2 degr. retarded and exhaust 2 degr advanced .

 

[Blower]

Modified intake plenum :

 

[49er]

Hey Blower, thanks for the feedback.

I see from your original post that you are running an Eaton M45 SC. What is the maximum boost available from this unit? The manufacturers recommend a max of 14,000 rpm for their SC. Do you have any rpm figures for maximum efficiency? At 30% increase over crank rpm, you're already close to their recommended limit.

Are you enlarging the outlet or inlet ports or just shaping/blending radii ? What's the reasoning behind this?

 

[Blower]

Hey Blower, thanks for the feedback.

I see from your original post that you are running an Eaton M45 SC. What is the maximum boost available from this unit? The manufacturers recommend a max of 14,000 rpm for their SC. Do you have any rpm figures for maximum efficiency? At 30% increase over crank rpm, you're already close to their recommended limit.

Are you enlarging the outlet or inlet ports or just shaping/blending radii ? What's the reasoning behind this?

I think the max boost in my case can be near 10 psi .
I have a redline in 9000 rpm , so the SC spins 11700 rpm and the boost is 6 psi
and it needs 14 hp from crank.
When I increase SC to spinning 38 % over crank rpm it spins 12420 rpm and the boost
rises to 8 psi . SC takes 19 hp from crank .

Inlet port is "polished" , I only smooth the rough surface .
Outlet port is enlarged to Y shape , like in this picture :

Porting the SC reduces the boost heat (maybe) .

 

[49er]

I think the max boost in my case can be near 10 psi .
I have a redline in 9000 rpm , so the SC spins 11700 rpm and the boost is 6 psi
and it needs 14 hp from crank.
When I increase SC to spinning 38 % over crank rpm it spins 12420 rpm and the boost
rises to 8 psi . SC takes 19 hp from crank .

Inlet port is "polished" , I only smooth the rough surface .
Outlet port is enlarged to Y shape , like in this picture :

Porting the SC reduces the boost heat (maybe) .

You can certainly do with a reduction in the Delta T if you intend to increase the SC speed to 12,420 rpm. The CAPA chart indicates a figure of 155 deg F at that rpm.

It shouldn't harm your cause by smoothing out the rough inlet port surfaces, although on really smooth head ports, fuel droplets form on the shinny surface and reduce natural atomisation. The action and shape of your impellors should guarantee good atomisation from that point on though.

The enlarged Y exhaust port should reduce friction, but it may also affect efficiency. Looks like a 10%-15% increase in port window.
Good on you for having a go, you won't know until you try it.

 

[Blower]

The "Y-bottom" area I ported out is not important for impellers , because there is a 0.002" gap between the impellers and the housing . That 1" wide "Y-bottom" area had a cast surface , not machined .

There is only air , which passes thru SC not air/fuel mixture . I?ve got a Megasquirt EFI and TPI injection .
If it needs a boost cooling I?m going to install a water/methanol injection and inject before the SC .
The max boost temperature was about 110 deg F over ambient temperature in 6 psi .

 

[49er]

The "Y-bottom" area I ported out is not important for impellers , because there is a 0.002" gap between the impellers and the housing . That 1" wide "Y-bottom" area had a cast surface , not machined .

There is only air , which passes thru SC not air/fuel mixture . I?ve got a Megasquirt EFI and TPI injection .
If it needs a boost cooling I?m going to install a water/methanol injection and inject before the SC .
The max boost temperature was about 110 deg F over ambient temperature in 6 psi .

I was forgetting that the SC is blowing through. The water/ methanol injection upstream of the SC may be a good idea. That way, you will help increase the density of the charge and possibly increase the HP output by more than the realistic 40% claimed by CAPA.

110 deg F at those rpms isn't too bad when compared to some other compressors. Do you know what the max efficiency is for the M45 ?
It's certainly producing a reasonably flat torque curve from your dyno printout.

M45 units were sold originally with a choice of 2 bypass valves. One was designed for mounting on the intake port, the second for remote mounting.

Here's some related research http://www.capa.com.au/library_vortech_testing.htm

 

[Blower]

I was forgetting that the SC is blowing through. The water/ methanol injection upstream of the SC may be a good idea. That way, you will help increase the density of the charge and possibly increase the HP output by more than the realistic 40% claimed by CAPA.

110 deg F at those rpms isn't too bad when compared to some other compressors. Do you know what the max efficiency is for the M45 ?
It's certainly producing a reasonably flat torque curve from your dyno printout.

M45 units were sold originally with a choice of 2 bypass valves. One was designed for mounting on the intake port, the second for remote mounting.

Here's some related research http://www.capa.com.au/library_vortech_testing.htm

The M45 max efficiency is 67% and its available in pressure ratio 1.3 - 1.46 in SC speed 4600 rpm - 7000 rpm .
Here : http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbotech.html#eaton are more charts .

 

[49er]

The M45 max efficiency is 67% and its available in pressure ratio 1.3 - 1.46 in SC speed 4600 rpm - 7000 rpm .
Here : http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbotech.html#eaton are more charts .

Exellent link for comparing compressor maps for turbos. Only Vortech SC maps shown. I liked the secrets and oscars links.
Good luck with your results after doing those port mods.

 

[Blower]

Does anybody have a specs for Yoshimura "street" cams . I bought a set of used Yoshi cams . Those cams have about same lift as 1150 original intake cams , but the open and closing time ?

 

[CB900SS]

Wow! Awesome bike, its really amazing what you have done.

Any video yet? I would love to hear that creation run!

 

[Blower]

Get engine running yesterday first time after modifications.
The valve gear is bit more noisier than before (APE valve springs an Yoshi stage 1 cams).
The cams are now installed with 110,5 LSA, intake center line 113 and exhaust 108.