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1150 transmission problems

Carter Turk

Carter Turk

Forum Sage
Charter Member
I posted earlier this week about 2nd gear shuddering, but nobody responded to that problem. I'm wondering if I offended someone or don't take good enough care of my bike to warrant a response?

Anyway, the motor was split and the shift forks were replaced along with the some of the transmission bearings..

I talked to a guy in Ohio, Scott Barger, with a claimed 25 years experience with GS's and he thinks the alignment of the counter shaft gears maybe off causing the bike to not fully engage 2nd gear.

I inadvertenly took all the gears off the countershaft to remove the bearings, finding out later that it was unneccesary. I didn't want to wedge a screwdriver between bearing and gear to get if off. Had I firmly pulled on them, they probably would have come off.

2nd gear I suppose is shot so, I'll unfortunately have to split it again.

Am I mistaken in thinking that this shaft (counter) has no press fit parts? Where no calipers are needed to measure width of gear pack?

I realize the other shaft (clutch shaft) has a press fit gear. 2nd no?

I have never fiddled with the gears on this shaft (clutch) and I carefully assembled the counter shaft gears with the various spacers, circlips and lock washers.

Before I split the engine cases, I was having problems with what I thought was the clutch, but someone here suggested that the shift forks maybe bent causing my creeping and pulsating at a stop.

2nd gear never popped out when I was having these creeping problems.

Any ideas what I did wrong? All the other gears work and the bike is noticably smoother with the new bearings.
 
First, shift forks shouldn't cause creeping and pulsing at a stop.

Second, it sounds as if you didn't get the countershaft assembled correctly.
 
Common problem with 2th gear on alot of different brands of bikes. The engagement dogs on the gear get rounded and cause the gear to slip. You need to also change the mating gear 5th?? Or you can send the gear set to have it undercut restoring the function of the engagement dogs
 
SqDancerLynn1 said:
Common problem with 2th gear on alot of different brands of bikes. The engagement dogs on the gear get rounded and cause the gear to slip. You need to also change the mating gear 5th?? Or you can send the gear set to have it undercut restoring the function of the engagement dogs
Click to expand...
Very good point, although I thought he said 2nd gear wasn't popping out before the rebuild. Once the cases are split, you can inspect the dogs. I was assuming you did that before the first rebuild. 8O ALWAYS INSPECT. 8)
 
What do you mean by shuddering? cause that sounds like a clutch problem. Correct # of plates and fibers.

I'd check the clutch assy to make sure it's right before splitting the case's again.
 
Thanks for the replies. Before splitting the case I changed pretty much everything in the clutch except the two bearings in the clutch cover.

I'm not running stock plates which I'm going to try this time around or Fast by Gast.

The odd thing is this set up worked at fine for several years, then began to deteriorate. Variable engagement , creeping, pulsing,no matter what the adjustment at either end. I've tryed three different clutch cables, moved the arm etc.

I had a more technical minded friend inspect the tranmission. Not a thorough one, but a visual. Looked good according to him, normal wear, dogs looked good.

The shuddering is 2nd. Here's the scenario: Moderate acceleration in first shift to 2nd, rpms hit 3 grand , bike begins to feel like its in and out of gear, but if I roll off the throttle, it is still in 2nd.

I haven't tryed heavy load in 2nd just got out of the shuddering and shifted to third.

The plates are EBC and Barnett which I hear are junk.
 
On my 82 GS1100EZ I use 9 fibers and 9 plates. The fiber's came from schnitz racing and they where from Fast by Gast. Great fiber's for 80 bucks. Just soak them in oil for a few days and they will last a long time.

I'd try some new fibers and new springs. Also check the inner steel plate inside the basket, there's a metal ring that keeps it in place make sure it's intalled correctly if it's like the 1100 clutch basket.

If you are using 9 plates and 9 fiber's make sure you're using the thicker fiber plates. On the 1100 with 9 and 9 the fiber plate should be 2.6mm and for 10 fiber and 11 steel, the fiber plates are 1.85mm.

If your're using 1.85mm fiber plates in a 9 by 9 pack it's going to slip and cause lot's of problems due to over 6mm of excess gap/play.

Check your 1150 manual to see if it's anything like the 1100 clutch assy.
 
Any thoughts on counter shaft gears having a press fit like the clutch shaft gears?

Thanks for the clutch info, Jake
 
I was hoping we didn't have to go here.

If your clutch is AoK and 2nd gear is the only gear still slipping then it could be that 2nd gear on the input shaft is spinning on the shaft. Since that gear is pressed on, my book says it can only be removed twice and then you have to replace the shaft. When you re-install 2nd gear you need to apply a locking compound on the shaft then press it on.

Maybe you can remove that gear again and apply some suzuki thread lock super 1303B, part #99000-32030.

I really hope that you have a clutch problem and not a 2nd gear problem.

Does it only happen in 2nd gear. I'd get in 3rd gear at WOT until redline then shift to 4th and do it again. If no slip in 3rd or 4th then it could be a gear problem.
 
RacingJake said:
If your clutch is AoK and 2nd gear is still slipping then it could be that 2nd gear on the input shaft is spinning on the shaft. Since that gear is pressed on, my book says it can only be removed twice and then you have to replace the shaft. When you re-install 2nd gear you need to apply a locking compound on the shaft then press it on.

Maybe you can remove that gear again and apply some suzuki thread lock super 1303B, part #99000-32030.

I really hope that you have a clutch problem and not a 2nd gear problem.
Click to expand...
I don't think any drive gear relies strictly on a press fit to keep from spinning on the shaft. I could be wrong, but that doesn't sound right.
 
Yeap, there's lock tight in there too. 2nd gear on the input shaft is pressed on, no splines. But due to the gear ratio there's less torque on that gear as compared to 3rd through 5th.
 
I just re-read your post,
Since you didn't touch the input shaft (clutch), hopefully that pressed on 2nd gear is OK.

Maybe something is wrong on the output shaft (counter), maybe a clip, washer or spacer is loose or popped out of it's groove. Maybe a gear is backwards or out of order.

There's no pressed on gear's on the output shaft.

Are the shifting forks the right one's and are they pointed in the right direction.

I'm just picking your brain for idea's, I'd still make sure your clutch is OK before going back into the case's
 
Yeah, there is no slip in the other gears. There never has been in the past, so that is what made me think of the transmission.

I'm confident, I assembled the countershaft properly, but now I'm second guessing it. I had no unaccounted spacers, washers or circlips..

The shift forks are brand new and were visually operating in their new home

Could the pressed 2nd gear spin off its thread lock from the factory?

If second gear is shot I will have to replace both gears and assume I could press on a gear 1 time after the factory and be safe, you think?

Also what other adjoining gears will I need to replace? I was hoping to do another track day this summer, but I need to get this sorted. Bumming in Washington
 
Carter Turk said:
Yeah, there is no slip in the other gears. There never has been in the past, so that is what made me think of the transmission.
Click to expand...

So the clutch is good, right number of plates and right thickness

Carter Turk said:
Could the pressed 2nd gear spin off its thread lock from the factory?
Click to expand...

It's rare for a street bike, I'd think it would happen more to me running a slick.

Carter Turk said:
If second gear is shot I will have to replace both gears and assume I could press on a gear 1 time after the factory and be safe, you think?

Also what other adjoining gears will I need to replace? I was hoping to do another track day this summer, but I need to get this sorted. Bumming in Washington
Click to expand...

It might just be that one gear, wouldn't know for sure until it is inspected. May have to replace the input shaft too.
Might be able to find a good transmission here or dragbike.com if needed.
 
Thanks for the help Jake. How much more money did it cost you to go .16 quicker?

The clutch isn't sorted. It creeps bad in first with variable engagement.

I think I'm going to try the Gast fibers and buck up for the stock steels.

This is getting expensive,, but I guess my sour perma period mood wont go away until it runs right.
 
Have you inspected the shafts good for warpage(twisted). The stock output will twist causing a binding under load. I met Scott in the eighties while drag racing. He should know a 1100/1150 well. He also had one of the most horrific falls I have ever seen drag racing. Ask him about Memphis Tennesse. IT WAS BAD. Personally I would send the tranny out to have it checked and polished up. Several places do good work. I hate to say it but I am more familiar with drag racing tranny`s than stock ones. Many of the things you asked about I eliminated before they could give trouble. I can answer most all questions about autos and 3 speeds.
 
If i'd would of ported my head it would run faster than 6.46 as a 1166cc 13-1 motor. But instead I went with the mtc big block 1395cc 10-1 and found out the limits to a stock 1100 head....6.30, that was 550 bucks right there. But i want a pump gas bike this year.

So i bought a 1150 head from Scott too. It has a street/strip port job so that should drop 3-5 tenths more off the slip. My magic number is 5.99 or better. Should have it on in a few weeks.

As is the bike runs strong. Just a few weeks ago I was racing a friend he has a Blackbird with bars and runs 6.60's in the 1/8. Had a mis-shift and he darted by less than 100 feet from the line I got it back in gear and caught back up at the line. He won just by a hair. That was fun.

MTC block and pistons 550
1150 head 600
91 gsxr arm 75
92 gsxr 5.5 wheel assy 100
mre lockup 125
rbd cover with cable & lever 250
wheelie bar 75
7.0 slick 150
msd mc2 75
gsxr 750 carbs 75
shift lite 75
5/8 sprocket 75
44T sprocket 75
RTD7 200
Ford soleniod free
Pro pipe 119
16 in front wheel 60
Gas mask 19
and a few other small thing i forgot

This is what I've spend over the past 2 1/2 years, sort of piece it together as I go. Half the fun is working on the bike
 
Thanks again Jake and Chris. Any ideas what I can expect to pay to have the tranny gone thru. Not undercutting, but streetable, that all I really do.

That is me sending the two shafts and gears out to someone.
 
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