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1978 GS 400 Ignition w/ CDI wiring diagram

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mailo
  • Start date Start date
Let me be clear, this is not standard and I don't think anybody has the wiring information in their head. So you are just going to have to figure out how it is supposed to be wired. First was it wired up in the first place and was it running? Or did it ever run that way?

What you describe as a mess is likely the only information you have on how it is supposed to be, so go find the wiring and a piece of paper and write down which wire and color corresponds to which as well as the connector position of each.

You can see that the little black box (Blue) under the ignition cover is probably the magnetic pickup wire. By a process of elimination the other is the alternator? wire.
 
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Im seeing some wiring diagrams and in some of them i see that the pulse comes from the stator, in others from a pulse generator like the one in my bike
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That'd be a different bike altogether-perhaps a '79 Honda CX500 -they do have a special coil built into the stator for this. However, the pulse-generator connection may be the same and may help you.
Yes, the colours of the wires may help a lot to figure it out.
The colours of the wires may match the Honda norm, where green wires are ground, black wires are 12 volt "hot". On our Suzukis, Red is 12vhot and Black/white stripe is ground, but there are many other colours too and what I said is really simplistic...but I am hoping the manufacturer matched the colours to some bike's wiring colours
 
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The green wire in your pictures says Honda to me. That will be Ground, if I am right. If there is a wire with a green stripe, it may go to kill switch per the wiring diagram.
 
I am looking at your first picture posted ,mailo and I also wonder if the bike ever ran like this. Posplayer pointed out the missing mechanical advance mechanism which our bikes use. I fear the previous owner was trying to make it work before he sold it to you....? Trying to fit something that never will.
but tell us the wire colours whatever.
 
Gorminrider said:
I am looking at your first picture posted ,mailo and I also wonder if the bike ever ran like this. Posplayer pointed out the missing mechanical advance mechanism which our bikes use. I fear the previous owner was trying to make it work before he sold it to you....? Trying to fit something that never will.
but tell us the wire colours whatever.
Click to expand...

The mechanical advance ( or as i call centrifugal advance) its behind the plate of the sensor.
I was told the bike ran with this conection, but im doubt it

i looked for the number in the CDI box and i readed that its used on hondas CB
 
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posplayr said:
There seems to be some confusion with the Kill switch.
Standard Suzuki kill switch out is Orange/White. But that is also the output of the fuse box as well. The O/W from the kill switch connector is what powers the whole ignition circuit as shown.
Click to expand...


So i can connect a power source (battery) to the O/W wire before the kill switch and it should run?
 
The mechanical advance ( or as i call centrifugal advance) its behind the plate of the sensor.
Click to expand...
good news!
that its used on hondas CB
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making progress! Maybe try to find wiring diagrams for cb350, cb360 cl350 ... i n general, medium Honda twins with batteries and charging systems- not magneto type bikes! . Cross reference colours to suzuki diagram as the previous owner must have done and you might have it!

I was told the bike ran with this conection but im doubt it
Click to expand...
No, you have to trust them or throw it away. Previous owners don't usually lie, but they often forget to tell you important details. I mean, look how hard we are working here to get the important details from you. :)..Carry on!
 
Gorminrider said:
good news!

making progress! Maybe try to find wiring diagrams for cb350, cb360 cl350 ... i n general, medium Honda twins with batteries and charging systems- not magneto type bikes! . Cross reference colours to suzuki diagram as the previous owner must have done and you might have it!


No, you have to trust them or throw it away. Previous owners don't usually lie, but they often forget to tell you important details. I mean, look how hard we are working here to get the important details from you. :)..Carry on!
Click to expand...


Thank you ill look to it
 
The picture you show is a magneto style cdi, like you'd find on dirt bike- no battery needed,as that coil powers the ignition system . In your setup, the cdi box needs a power source to enable it to fire when triggered by sensor.
 
To possibly help with terminology here, especially since Mailo is in Argentina, ... many people (owners, mechanics, etc.) will use the term "CDI" for any version of an electronic ignition, mainly because that was the popular upgrade for automotive systems back in the late '70s and early '80s. It will have a large capacitor, which is charged to a couple hundred volts, then discharged when the magnetic trigger 'tells' the magic black box to discharge, which it then does through the coil.

In our bikes, current flows through the coils, which have two sets of windings, basically making them a transformer. The electric current sets up a magnetic field in the windings. When the points open to stop current flow, the magnetic field collapses. The collapsing magnetic field causes a back current in the windings, but since the points are open, the only place for it to go is out the secondary windings to the spark plugs, where it is forced to jump across a gap, which lights the fuel mixture. All of this is collectively called an "Inductive Discharge Ignition", which is pretty much based on points and coils.

In the 1980 models, Suzuki replaced the mechanical points with a box of transistors and called it an "ignitor". It was actually a poor choice of names, as it does not ignite anything, it only interrupts current flow, just like the points did. Regardless, since it was new and electronic, a lot of people call it "CDI", which is not correct.

Dyna makes a conversion kit for these bikes to replace the points with an electronic version, but it still uses the stock coils or an upgraded version of them. It is still not a Capacitive system, even though it is electronic.

Apparently Mailo has come across what might be a "CDI" system, but none of us has seen one before, so we are still guessing.

.
 
posplayr said:
Yes, but you should do that from the O/W from the fusebox with 10 amp fuse.

The GS harness is designed this way:

BAT==>+15Amp fuse==>Ign SW==>+10Amp Fuse=O/W=>KillSwitch=O/W=>Coil/Ignitor

I show all the colors
You are proposing powering from the spot that is underlined.
You should find the 10amp fuse box output.
Click to expand...

yes i need to start the engine with ONLY THE ESSENTIAL things to know how it runs.

Questions:
1) The sensor has two wires, the blue one that goes to the box and other to ground. its this ok?
2) nothing has to be connected to the stator?
3) Im confused about this 2 wires

Yellow= What is for the yellow wire? does it ground the coil or gives power to it?
Black= The black powers the Coil and the CDI Box?


Sorry for my bad english and my poor knowledge about electronics. thats why im studing mechanical engeenering and not electronics hahaha
 
tom203 said:
The picture you show is a magneto style cdi, like you'd find on dirt bike- no battery needed,as that coil powers the ignition system . In your setup, the cdi box needs a power source to enable it to fire when triggered by sensor.
Click to expand...

I was thinking it might be a magneto type but there is no other coil on that breaker plate as is shown in the google search pictures.

He probably needs a breaker plate with the magneto coil to work as a CDI and my drawing is wrong.
 
tom203 said:
From googling , I got this

https://www.google.com/search?q=pie...etcard-codigo-2235-yama-80tnzh-a.html;500;281
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Yes tom i looked at PIETCARD Homepage and there are 3 types of "CDI"

the one that fits with mine is this

http://www.pietcard.com.ar/Content/images/Notas/CDI con avance 1.jpg

but that wiring diagram isn't the same that i have in my bike ( maybe that is why its not working)

i can try if that setup works, but i cant figure what " BOBINA DE ALIMENTACION (ALIMENTATION COIL) " is, may they refer to the stator?
 
Mailo said:
yes i need to start the engine with ONLY THE ESSENTIAL things to know how it runs.

Questions:
1) The sensor has two wires, the blue one that goes to the box and other to ground. its this ok?
2) nothing has to be connected to the stator?
3) Im confused about this 2 wires

Yellow= What is for the yellow wire? does it ground the coil or gives power to it?
Black= The black powers the Coil and the CDI Box?


Sorry for my bad english and my poor knowledge about electronics. thats why im studing mechanical engeenering and not electronics hahaha
Click to expand...

My drawing is wrong :( and I deleted those posts
 
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That setup with "BOBINA DE ALIMENTACION (ALIMENTATION coil ) " has to be for magneto style ignition- the cdi is charged by that coil rather than needing a battery to power it.
 
Mailo said:
This is the ignitor

http://www.pietcard.com.ar/Producto/Detalle/261

it says code: OKI MPS 200
Click to expand...

I went to tech support page and looked for 4 cycle. Translated this...............

http://www.pietcard.com.ar/Nota/Detalle/44

The 4-stroke engines required for proper operation of the ignition curve generates a variable feed rate and RPM in different RPM jump spark must occur at different stages of progress.
In this case it is a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) with electronic advance with a simple curve.
As its name suggests uses a capacitor that is charged to a particular voltage on the coil is discharged high at the time required for the motor.
This type of ignition coil comprising a supply, a CDI (black box), a sensor and a coil discharge.
By rotating the magneto coil generates AC power which is used to charge the capacitor with the positive half cycles.
This keeps the stored capacitor current until the circuit issues a trigger signal which depends on engine RPM so the advance curve is variable.
Regarding the sensor must be of type magnetic core with the magnetic wheel outside and with a cam drive of a size of about 20 25 degrees (measured on the circumference of the wheel)
Progress works as follows:
When the engine runs at low RPM CDI circuit takes time sensor signal with a delay in the firing of the spark is generated. Upon reaching 2000 RPM that delay is minimized progressively until 3000 RPM where it shoots straight.
Thus from 3000 onwards the engine RPM works with forward progress.
This minimum and maximum advance is directly dependent on the length of the cam that excites the sensor, therefore any alteration thereof change the ignition advance curve.
Click to expand...

It is CDI and it needs a magneto coil on the plate. The unit determines it's own electronic advance.

I feel like we are on a game show.....................
 
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Posplayr i don't know if that tech information is for my ignitor

i found that the code of the ignitor ( in other manufacturers is )

OKIS MPS-200 maybe you can found something with that.


To see where the stator is do i have to drain the oil?? so i can took some pictures to show you guys.
 
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