1978 GS1000 bored out to 1173 by RC Engineering

[txironhead]

Got new intake manifold boots with nice stainless allen head fasteners, just waiting for the 29mm smoothbores, which are getting sorted out at Wired George's carburetor ranch in Texas.
>>>>>
I'm gonna check the valve clearances and replace the paper gasket with the Real Gasket silicone version.

First, where is Wired George located? I'm in Texas and would like to check it out. Is there a website?

Second, where did you get the Real Gasket?

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your explanation, Keith. I will keep you posted and others who may be interested in 29mm smoothbores. They're new to me as well, and I'm interested in how they'll perform.

Snapped some photos this morning but I left the memory card at home. I'll get 'em posted when I return this evening.

For Txironhead, Real Gaskets is located in Tennessee, and their product is well regarded judging by what I've read on the GS Resources. Their website is realgaskets.com

As for Wired George, there is a wider range of opinion about him on this site, but from my experience, his rebuild work appears very meticulous, his carburetors function well and he seems to know his way around Japanese multicylinder bikes. His website is wgcarbs.com

Good luck.

Jack

 

[hp1000s]

To Keith's point....I read his vent tube findings in another post a long time back. I had what I thought was a lean surge: proceeded to richen and richen and richen, till it fouled plugs...still surging! Ditched the vent hoses, which were there when I got the bike years ago, put the carb settings back where they were when I started, and voila', no more surge...Thanks, Keith.
Hugh

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

To Keith's point....I read his vent tube findings in another post a long time back. I had what I thought was a lean surge: proceeded to richen and richen and richen, till it fouled plugs...still surging! Ditched the vent hoses, which were there when I got the bike years ago, put the carb settings back where they were when I started, and voila', no more surge...Thanks, Keith.
Hugh

You're welcome.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

As for Wired George, there is a wider range of opinion about him on this site, but from my experience, his rebuild work appears very meticulous, his carburetors function well and he seems to know his way around Japanese multicylinder bikes.

I want to say something here that needs to be said. Sorry to momentarily change this threads subject.
I got into it with him a while back. I did not mean for the whole thing to get as serious as it did. But I take some things seriously enough to say what's on my mind and stay with it when I know I'm right.
Negative things typed will always stand out more than positives and I understand that and how things can escalade.
George seems to be very capable as you say. I said the same thing in the other thread. I have no doubt he can clean and rebuild carbs just fine. He SHOULD have a good idea of where to start if asked to re-jet but I've found some of his past re-jetting advice to be way off based on proven/verified testing from myself and other members here. I've read some other threads from him in the past and he has some good experience to share. George apparently has a pretty good business going by doing carb work. He wants to make money and there's nothing wrong with that.
I also have experience with carbs. He says he's rebuilt more of them than me and I would assume, running a business, he's right. That doesn't mean he does it any better than me or someone else. At some point, you don't get better, maybe faster? Whatever. The main difference between us is that I try to get others to do their own work. You can see how this is against his interests.
My problem with him is that he misleads potential customers.
>He says he sends you carbs that are vacuum synched on a test bike. He's saying you won't need to vacuum synch them once they're on your bike. The adjustments will stay the same or close enough.
>Since mixture/pilot air/pilot fuel screw adjustments must be made before the vacuum synch, he's obviously saying that those adjustments too, will be good on your bike even though they were also determined on a test bike.
>He also says any jetting or RE-JETTING is installed and then tested on his test bike. This jetting should/will work on your bike, with the emphasis on will.
I find the three above statements to be misleading and ridiculous. You cannot accurately do any of the above unless the carbs are on YOUR bike with your particular set up/engine condition/elevation/climate conditions. You can guess but no more than that. You have to test instead of taking anyones word for fact.
I see why he advertises this way.
His potential customer is mainly inexperienced owners. They don't feel comfortable doing their own carb work, be it cleaning, rebuilding, or jetting.
If the owner realized that the carbs, after he's set them up, may very well STILL need an accurate vacuum synch, accurate tuning screw adjustments, changes to the jetting, possible float level changes, etc.....
that owner may decide "what the heck, if there's a good chance I have to do those things anyway then I might a well try the cleaning and rebuild too". George doesn't want that obviously.
Many owners are on a budget and figure they're saving the price of a vacuum gauge when they try to decide what to do. I'm here to say that they'll need that vacuum gauge or have the bike synched at a good shop if they want the bike to run its best, not just good enough.
George should send you clean and rebuilt carbs. The jetting/adjustments will be guessed at from his experience. When you install them on your bike, your bike may very well run better than it did. It also may be the first time your bike has run at all. It may need minor adjustments, it may need much more than that. You may feel the bike runs great but if you have no experience with a bike like yours, in correct tune, how do you know? Because it doesn't stall? It doesn't spit out the carbs? It warms up fine and idles OK? It doesn't pop? It gets good mileage?
You can have great mileage but what good is it if you're running very lean? You have to test before considering the bike tuned correctly. You cannot take someones word for fact. Not on this subject.
I just want people to make a decision based on truth, not misleading advertizing that tells them what they want to hear.
If that ticks someone off, then so be it.

 

[Guest]

I hear what you're saying, Keith. One of the reasons I'm so fond of the early air-cooled GS fours (I've had two 750s and now have two 1978 1000s) is that they're relatively simple machines, and even a timid mechanic, which is how I'd characterize myself when I first began working on my own bikes about ten years ago, if he acquires proper tools, works patiently and makes judicious use of the encyclopedic wisdom found here and in the factory manual, can solve just about any problem and do all the scheduled maintenance himself.

All except the carburetors, in my case. I have an exaggerated fear of fiddling with them, maybe because very small changes can create large effects, and usually for the worse. Anyway, the plan is to rebuild one set of 26mm Mikunis this winter and banish the fright forever.

Anyway, enough with the psychotherapy, how about a few photos:

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/jpmason_2006/GS1000c/

I've been busy at work so haven't had much chance to test ride the new setup. The Vance & Hines header and baffle didn't come close to mating out of the box, so I went to a muffler shop and had them widen the inner circumference of the baffle pipe slightly on this extraordinarily phallic pneumatic device. The junction of the header pipe and the baffle is too loose now, so before I do any fine tuning I've got to shim it with muffler tape and clamp the connection tight.

I did ride it around the block and I gotta say, this bike has got a beastly motor. While my stock 1000 goes from polite to nasty rather abruptly at 6,000 rpm, this thing starts to grunt just off idle, and by about 3,000 you're Evel Knievel looking for a ramp and a fountain to jump.

Wahoo! Just in time for the midlife crisis!

Jack

 

[pano]

Man, that bike is sweet!

 

[BadBillyB]

I'm guessing that with the pumped up motor I should select a number or two higher than the stock B8 on the NGK spark plug temperature scale. The bike came with B9's installed and a couple of packs of B10's in the spare parts bin the previous owner gave me. I'd be grateful for any advice from the drag racing drivers on this subject.



Jack

Jack, there is no reason to go to a colder plug with your motor. The B8ES is perfect. Did you ever check and see what cams came in this motor?? Should be markings on the end of the cams. Good reason to check the valve clearance and install the new gasket. Might want to look for some 33 smoothies for that big motor if you ever get the itch for some serious top end power. Now thats a good winter project.......BadBillyB

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I sure am hearing about a lot of header-to-muffler fit problems with the V&H megaphone. My pipe (12005) fit very well (bought 7 years ago/before the "minor" changes to the flanges and apparently overall fit) and this news is effecting my decision to buy a new spare. I did have to find the "sweet spot" by rotating the muffler to a certain position before the pipe would slip together then re-aligning it so the muffler bolt bracket would line up to be tightened. But it seems like others are having fit problems that need modding.
I'm sure that someday soon you won't be able to get a nice new pipe for our bikes and I thought I'd buy a spare for the possibility that mine starts looking bad or whatever. I ride the bike all the time and it's nearly impossible to clean some areas properly, so you will get some rust damage or possibly worse. I plan to keep the bike forever so I would like the insurance of having a new pipe to use.
You would think you could just buy one, check it out cosmetically real quick, and then box it up until the time you need it.
Now it seems that after receiving it, you'll have to take off your old pipe and install (force/modify?) the new one on just to be sure it's going to work. You sure won't be able to return it if you find out it won't fit many years later. Then you'll possibly need new exhaust gaskets when you re-install the old one. All because you can no longer trust a "good" company like V&H?
I don't know if they're just saying "the classic/older bike owners will just have to take what we give 'em or go without", but it's very disheartening.
Why can't they just get the measurements right? Maybe if we all e-mailed them to say they have a problem? Maybe they don't know or think it only happens to a few pipes? Seems to me it's happening all the time.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Jack, let us know how it runs and if you need help with the jetting.
Get a couple of plug reads at full, 1/3 and minimal throttle positions. Do what the plugs say, they're your window to the motor.
It would be very hard to gauge how well the bike really should be running if you're not used to riding that kind of motor. It may run great but it could have more potential and you wouldn't realize it.
Just a side note about your pic's...I've never seen the oil cooler lines routed that way. Looks like they're rubber and very close to the exhaust? Just an observation.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, Keith, those oil lines definitely need to be rerouted. I like the way Reno Bruce has sent his over the top of the motor, then down between the carbs and into the return adapter. That's another winter project. I'm gonna switch to stainless lines and look for a bigger, more efficient oil cooler than the old Lockhart. It's immediately apparent how much more heat comes off this motor than my stock bike.

Speaking of heat, I finally got the header to mate with the pipe using three or four windings of muffler bandage on the header pipe to snug things up. Then I aired the tires, checked all the bolts and headed in a gargling slow way for Interstate 580, which is about a mile from my house. My friends, you should have heard the lovely howl as the engine went to work. Third gear took me past the speed limit before I'd gotten to the top of the ramp so I nicked it into fourth and eased my way onto the highway. Fine tuning is definitely in order, but like I said before, this bike wants to go.

Hey Bad Billy B, thanks for your advice on the spark plugs. The previous owner told me to gap the plugs at .065 in., which is nearly double the distance of the factory specifications. Does that sound right to you?

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Hey Bad Billy B, thanks for your advice on the spark plugs. The previous owner told me to gap the plugs at .065 in., which is nearly double the distance of the factory specifications. Does that sound right to you?

That's quite a gap. I forgot what ignition and coils you're running.
The Dyna people suggest increasing the gap (forgot the amount) when running their S ignition but it wasn't nearly that much gap.
I run the Dyna S and their green 3.3 coils but I stayed closer to the wide end of the factory gap, about .030". I recently changed my plugs "just because" and after nearly 30,000 miles on the rebuilt motor, the plugs were in very good condition with only the slightest rounding of the ground electrode tip. I could have re-used them easily but the bike needed a birthday gift.:lol: My bike shows no sparking/heat related problems at all. I only have 1085 pistons/V&H/K&N's so I'm not sure how your additional mods factor into the need for a larger gap. I'm not into serious racing either or the knowledge gained there. Perhaps someone will educate us as to what the benefits are to such a large gap?

 

[BadBillyB]

Hey Bad Billy B, thanks for your advice on the spark plugs. The previous owner told me to gap the plugs at .065 in., which is nearly double the distance of the factory specifications. Does that sound right to you?

I would recommend gapping them to .028"......I always indexed mine when I installed them. A properly indexed plug will have the ground electrode facing the intake valve.

As far as the VHR megaphone goes, mine was purchased last December and right out of the box the 2 pieces would not go together. Careful examination showed that the very end (and only the very end) of the megaphone was slightly curved inward. All it needed was a light tap with a muffler cone and it slid right on. No cutting or expanding was needed.......Nice pipe......BadBillyB

 

[Guest]

BadBillyB, your mention of indexing spark plugs, a new term to me, sent me straight to Google. Believe it or not, Wikipedia had the best explanation of the process.

Indexing spark plugs

"A matter of some debate is the "indexing" of plugs upon installation, usually only for high performance or racing applications; this involves installing them so that the open area of the spark gap, not shrouded by the ground electrode, faces the center of the combustion chamber, towards the intake valve, rather than the wall. Many experts believe that this will maximize the exposure of the fuel-air mixture to the spark, and therefore result in better ignition; others, however, believe that this is useful only to keep the ground electrode out of the way of the piston in ultra-high-compression engines if clearance is insufficient. In any event, this is accomplished by marking the location of the gap on the outside of the plug, installing it, and noting the direction in which the mark faces; then the plug is removed and additional washers are added so as to change the orientation of the tightened plug. This must be done individually for each plug, as the orientation of the gap with respect to the threads of the shell is random."

Is this consistent with your understanding of the process?

On a related note, I'm beginning to realize that the previous owner's arsenal of B9 and B10 spark plugs and instructions to widen the plug gap were symptoms of a weak spark problem that wasn't being addressed at the source. I didn't test the old Gerex ignition system and coils before replacing them with the Dyna S and green coils, but my strong hunch is that the entire system, from stator to spark, was weak from age and inattention.

And to Keith's earlier point, the two vent tubes from the carburetors had hoses on them, which coupled with the velocity stacks was probably leading to intermittent fuel starvation and plug fouling.

As time and weather permits (I don't have a garage), I'm going to check the valve clearances and identify what sort of cams Russ Collins dropped in there. After I vacuum synch the carburetors, I can start reading the plugs.

Thanks again for the help.

Jack

 

[Guest]

What a sweet toy you have there, Jack. I'd love to see it run in person. I hope you plan on coming up next summer for the 2nd Western States get-together! Sounds like you will have the bike all worked out and running the way you want by then.

 

[BadBillyB]

BadBillyB, your mention of indexing spark plugs, a new term to me, sent me straight to Google. Believe it or not, Wikipedia had the best explanation of the process.

Indexing spark plugs

"A matter of some debate is the "indexing" of plugs upon installation, usually only for high performance or racing applications; this involves installing them so that the open area of the spark gap, not shrouded by the ground electrode, faces the center of the combustion chamber, towards the intake valve, rather than the wall. Many experts believe that this will maximize the exposure of the fuel-air mixture to the spark, and therefore result in better ignition; others, however, believe that this is useful only to keep the ground electrode out of the way of the piston in ultra-high-compression engines if clearance is insufficient. In any event, this is accomplished by marking the location of the gap on the outside of the plug, installing it, and noting the direction in which the mark faces; then the plug is removed and additional washers are added so as to change the orientation of the tightened plug. This must be done individually for each plug, as the orientation of the gap with respect to the threads of the shell is random."

Is this consistent with your understanding of the process?



Jack

Yes, that about sums it up. What I usually did was buy 8 plugs and minimize the thickness of the shim by trying them in different cylinders hoping they would line right up w/o any shims. Moroso used to sell shim kits for doing just this.....It's fun to be anal.....BadBillyB

 

[terry]

I didn't test the old Gerex ignition system and coils before replacing them with the Dyna S and green coils, but my strong hunch is that the entire system, from stator to spark, was weak from age and inattention.
Jack

Have you still got the Gerex ignition Jack? I've got a motley collection of old electronic ignitions (Martek 440, 880, Dyna 3, Dyna S, Prestolite, ARD etc,) but I've never seen a Gerex? I might be able to help you out with a bigger cooler as a trade? Cheers, Terry.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, I've still got it. Lemme paw through my boxes of spares and make sure I've got all the bits. I'd be delighted to trade it for a bigger oil cooler.

Jack

 

[terry]

Yeah, I've still got it. Lemme paw through my boxes of spares and make sure I've got all the bits. I'd be delighted to trade it for a bigger oil cooler.

Jack

Thanks Jack! Cheers, Terry.

 

[Guest]

We'll call this photo Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde:

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/jpmason_2006/GS1000e/

Not the greatest photo but you can see I'm keeping busy with these two 1978s.

The one on the left, obviously, would be the Russ Collins 1173. It's got heavy clutch action that launches the bike like a slingshot and the howl from the megaphone is dangerously intoxicating. It'll get you over the speed limit absurdly fast, but the front end gets the shakes between 75 and 80. Could be the steering head bearings or the front wheel bearings (though neither seems loose when I give the front end a shake) or something else, but it definitely gets your attention if you get too enthusiastic on the freeway.