1980 GS 750E starting/charging delema

[jbird7262]

I picked up this bike 5/31/14, it has starting problems, because of a weak link in the electical system. I know that the battery is weak, almost 3 yrs. old, I keep it on a trickle charge 1-2 amps overnight before I ride it, usually starts fine, turns over slow, today I was going to drive it to work and the gremlins showed up. Pushed the start button, starter spun a few times, little bit of choke but nothing, then just the starter solenoid clicking, I noticed that there was a small amount of smoke comming from the solenoid area and it was hot at the + side of the battery too. I have a new battery from a CB750 that will fit, should I try that first? Bike was running fine the other day, bled the brakes, adjusted the chain, ripped around the countryside and parked her for the morning drive. Lil' Help

 

[tom203]

Charging problems are real common- best to fix stuff , unless you have bike retrieval service on call during rides. Do the Quick TesT in this link- you need to start with fully charged good battery, so buy one or see if the honda one will fit ( + post in right spot? ).

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=1272192#post1272192

 

[Killer2600]

Don't see how charging relates to this but throw in your new charged battery and check things again. Can't begin to diagnose things when we start with a "weak" battery that is kept on life support.

 

[JTGS850GL]

I noticed that there was a small amount of smoke comming from the solenoid area and it was hot at the + side of the battery too.

Smoke and hot wires are never good and usually are indicative of a high resistive connection. Clean all your contacts points between the battery and the starter motor.

Charging issues are VERY common with these bikes. Take the time and verify that the charging system is working correctly with a known good battery installed. Measure the battery voltage with ignition off, ignition on, engine idling, engine running at 2.5K rpms and engine at 5K rpms. Report back the results.

 

[Killer2600]

Charging issues are VERY common with these bikes.

I hear that alot. I must have the chosen bike because my bike has never had problems charging in the nearly 8 years I've had it. It's all original parts and wiring scheme, the only modification is a coil relay mod, omitting/axing the bullet connectors between the stator and R/R, eliminating the stator headlight switch loop, and cleaning off the battery and starter solenoid terminals. Even before doing all that it still charged good, the work was done to get closer to new performance but I never did have low battery, running, or electrical issues.

My bike must be the ONE

 

[posplayr]

I hear that alot. I must have the chosen bike because my bike has never had problems charging in the nearly 8 years I've had it. It's all original parts and wiring scheme, the only modification is a coil relay mod, omitting/axing the bullet connectors between the stator and R/R, eliminating the stator headlight switch loop, and cleaning off the battery and starter solenoid terminals. Even before doing all that it still charged good, the work was done to get closer to new performance but I never did have low battery, running, or electrical issues.

My bike must be the ONE

What was the charging voltage at 5k rpm before you did any mods?

 

[JTGS850GL]

It's the preventive maintenance that you've done that has most likely saved your bike's electrical system from the same demise. All too often it's the bad terminal connections and abraded wires that are the start of a down hill slope toward final destruction of the electrical system.

Most on CL going for cheap are just those that have been abused for years. The end result is a fried electrical system with much repair in it's future if there's any hope of reviving it. I've brought my share of older bikes back to life from the depths of the CL world. It doesn't matter if it was a Honda, a Kaw or a Yamaha. In all cases the bikes from the 80's suffered the same electrical issues that our bikes have. Time and abuse aggravates the design shortcomings of that era.

 

[Killer2600]

What was the charging voltage at 5k rpm before you did any mods?

I don't rev the motor to 5k under no load, charging voltage in the 2-3k area was around 13.6-13.8 if I remember correctly.

Like I said, never a dead or low battery and never charged externally except in winter when the battery was pulled from the bike and stored. With that exact numbers don't matter, if it works it works. And for the anal, the numbers were good and even better after a little work.

 

[Killer2600]

It's the preventive maintenance that you've done that has most likely saved your bike's electrical system from the same demise.

I ran the bike in original unmodified form for 4 or so years before cleaning up or modifying anything so the bike was 30 or so years old before getting "preventive maintenance" on the electrical. Truly, not bad at all in the craftsmanship division if you ask me. When my R/R or stator does "burn" out I'll be sure to let you know but I think my headlight will go out first - all the years of my ownership and I've never replaced it and I don't think the previous owner did either. Actually, I've yet to replace any bulb on the bike. The only one that is out is one of the gauge illumination bulbs.

 

[posplayr]

I don't rev the motor to 5k under no load, charging voltage in the 2-3k area was around 13.6-13.8 if I remember correctly.

Like I said, never a dead or low battery and never charged externally except in winter when the battery was pulled from the bike and stored. With that exact numbers don't matter, if it works it works. And for the anal, the numbers were good and even better after a little work.

Since you don't do your measurements at 5k means you don't know how well your charging system is working and would explain to a large extent your pleasure with it.


There is a saying, I just can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[JTGS850GL]

I ran the bike in original unmodified form for 4 or so years before cleaning up or modifying anything so the bike was 30 or so years old before getting "preventive maintenance" on the electrical. Truly, not bad at all in the craftsmanship division if you ask me. When my R/R or stator does "burn" out I'll be sure to let you know but I think my headlight will go out first - all the years of my ownership and I've never replaced it and I don't think the previous owner did either. Actually, I've yet to replace any bulb on the bike. The only one that is out is one of the gauge illumination bulbs.

And I've ran across the interstate 30 times and haven't been hit by a car yet... Without regular maintenance all of our bikes can suffer. By saying it hasn't happened to me yet doesn't change the fact that there are weaknesses in the GS's electrical system that can rear it's head if left ignored. In most cases it's a cascade event where one area fails and impacts another. If no failure points then no problem. Over time connectors get corroded, fuses connections get hot and burn, wiring insulation degrades, stators insulation begins to break down. Any of which can cause stress on the electrical system without being noticed until final failure of the R/R or stator or both resulting in a dead battery. The resulting failure occurs quickly but the cause occurred over a long period of time.

Most of our bikes come from a dubious history and most that come on here are requesting assistance because that history has created issues that need to be addressed. Is it possible that you can go 30+ years without a stator or R/R failure? Of course it is possible. Is it likely that you will need some cleanup and repair over those 30+ years? Even more likely.

 

[Killer2600]

Since you don't do your measurements at 5k means you don't know how well your charging system is working and would explain to a large extent your pleasure with it.


There is a saying, I just can't quite put my finger on it.

Your going to have to really explain that one. If I recall the sole purpose of a charging system is to charge, the battery. Of which my battery has always been fully charged. Considering that's all I expect the charging system to do, what does how well matter? A full battery that isn't dead and cranks long and fast with a headlight that's on is a full battery that isn't dead and cranks long and fast with a headlight that's on. I could care less how or why it got that way.

I mean you can try to pitch me all the parts and labor that do nothing but take money out of my wallet and riding time away from my season, but I don't fix things that aren't broke. No amount of numbers, math, logic, debate, studies, evaluation, or anything you can conjure up can convince me that my battery isn't fully charged when the meter shows 12.8v before I take the bike out in the morning.

If we are truly going to go into the full, throughly evalute for signs of performance not equivalent to new and replace parts if found to make performance on par with new then you need to replace every part of your bike. Not because it's broken and needs repair, but because it's not on par with new as far as tests are concerned and it won't last as long as a new part.

Personally, I'd rather ride but if you sleep better working on the bike when you could be riding then go for it.

 

[tom203]

My bike made it to 40k miles before charging gremlins showed up (looked like original stator and R/R to me ) so I'm not surprised that some owners have had no problems, especially if they have cleaned up some wiring.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Let's keep in mind that this conversation started with a request for help from a new GSR member that IS having electrical issues.

Killer2600: Glad to hear that your bike is working perfect. Good for you. Now let's help the guy that needs it because he DOES HAVE ELECTRICAL ISSUES. Weather you have any issues now or in the future is irrelevant. Not all of our bikes have lived the same pampered life as yours.

 

[Killer2600]

And I've ran across the interstate 30 times and haven't been hit by a car yet... Without regular maintenance all of our bikes can suffer. By saying it hasn't happened to me yet doesn't change the fact that there are weaknesses in the GS's electrical system....

Sounds foolish to me.

That's where my argument lies, the "weaknesses in the GS's electrical system" isn't real. It's more a scare tactic than anything. Not to say people with electrical troubles are imagining them, but these bikes are 30+ years old made in a time when cordless phones were in their infancy and hand-held cell phones were on the drawing board at motorola. You can't expect that something made in that era by top notch engineers was intended and expected to last 30 years and if it doesn't then the original design was bad or the engineers weren't any good.

Our 30+ year old bikes no more prone to any electrical trouble or mechanical or electrical failure than any other 30+ year old bike. If you want to fix before it's broken then that's the way you fly. I'm here to say I only fix when broken and in 8 years of having this 32 year old bike I'm doing alright. Some might find that a big gamble but so far I'm winning - money in my pocket and more miles under my belt.

 

[Killer2600]

Let's keep in mind that this conversation started with a request for help from a new GSR member that IS having electrical issues.

Indeed, indeed not everyone has my chosen one bike

But the issues laid out in the first post are ones of starting not charging but because everyone is so stator and R/R replacement happy they jump right on it.

To be more specific, the original post states the poster regards his ~3 year old battery as weak, he also charges it every night on a 1-2 amp trickle charger, says it usually starts fine and turns over slow. Still with me? Where in any of that does a charging system issue with the bike arise? Maybe if both the bike AND his trickle charger weren't working but the odds of that to meet everyone's "check your stator and R/R" response would be pretty astounding. I'm more inclined to look into the 3 year old batteries health than the health of his stator and R/R.

 

[tom203]

In my tiny corner of world, I've corresponded with dozens of CL folks who have charging problems with bikes of this era (suzukis hondas yamahas)- this is a common problem- personally, I think some of the OEM R/R's were low quality (honda being the exception since they had a financial stake in Shindengen)., as you said. electronics were developing rapidly. Yeah, most of us just want to ride (saving money is nice), but it's nice to feel confident that you'll make it home.

 

[Killer2600]

In my tiny corner of world, I've corresponded with dozens of CL folks who have charging problems with bikes of this era (suzukis hondas yamahas)- this is a common problem- personally, I think some of the OEM R/R's were low quality (honda being the exception since they had a financial stake in Shindengen)., as you said. electronics were developing rapidly. Yeah, most of us just want to ride (saving money is nice), but it's nice to feel confident that you'll make it home.

Home is just that place where you stop riding, I'm in no hurry there

I get the whole being confident in the reliability of the bike, nothing wrong there if it's what you need/want. But the OP has starting issues, personally atm I could care less about the charging system.

 

[JTGS850GL]

Indeed, indeed not everyone has my chosen one bike

But the issues laid out in the first post are ones of starting not charging but because everyone is so stator and R/R replacement happy they jump right on it.

To be more specific, the original post states the poster regards his ~3 year old battery as weak, he also charges it every night on a 1-2 amp trickle charger, says it usually starts fine and turns over slow. Still with me? Where in any of that does a charging system issue with the bike arise? Maybe if both the bike AND his trickle charger weren't working but the odds of that to meet everyone's "check your stator and R/R" response would be pretty astounding. I'm more inclined to look into the 3 year old batteries health than the health of his stator and R/R.

Lets not forget the original post. Smoke coming from the starter solenoid is NOT battery related. It is clearly an issue with the condition of his wiring. Battery going dead repeatedly is also a sign of poor charging so I was simply requesting that he verify that it's in good working order AFTER he replaced the battery with a good one. If the reason the battery was failing was due to a bad charging system then he will have two dead batteries in a short time. I don't think that doing a valid system check to make sure there are any other issues is out of line in this case. It's you that seems to persist in the "head in the sand" mentality of I see nothing so nothing can be wrong. Get over it.

 

[Grimly]

In all cases the bikes from the 80's suffered the same electrical issues that our bikes have. Time and abuse aggravates the design shortcomings of that era.

Much to my surprise, some of the modern models from Aprilia, Ducati and Triumph can't seem to shake off that old stator curse, either.