1980 GS450 Rebuild

[Gambit]

Hey folks. I'm new to the world of motorcycles. However, I was an aviation electrician for 6 years or so in the military. My general mechanical skills are a bit higher than your average dude. I got this bike for $900. I feel it was worth it. The transmission and engine are SOLID. The frame is straight, the tires have plenty of tread and the rims are balanced. The bike starts and moves (fairly fast at that.) That's the good. That's what I paid for. The bad. Basically, this whole bike needs to be rewired. As I mentioned, I used to work on helicopters. So seeing some of the atrocities with this bikes electrical system was infuriating. But, that's why I bought it. It was strong in the parts I'm not so good with, and weak in the parts that I have a strong background in. Bare in mind, I am not a motorcyclist (yet.) I have no license, I have no experience. This IS my experience. I have some guys around me with decades on other bikes. But no one with GS or even Suzuki experience. So, I'm posting here for support where I need it, and corrections as well. The following photos/video is of the bike just after I pulled it off the truck and got handed the title. I've since pulled it apart a bit, but I'll get some video on my next day off of what I found. It can count as "things to never ever ever show an electrician." One more thing, I tend to get long winded when I type. I try to be very thorough in my commentary in order to alleviate the mundane questions and focus on what matters.

 

[Gambit]

I have my own YouTube channel. I dabbled in gaming videos for a brief period. You can watch those if you like, but I wouldn't suggest it. Anyhow, here's the Bike video link:

http://youtu.be/_c-klPthHjs

 

[Gambit]

Problems that will be immediately addressed:
All of the controls on the right grip are either broken or missing completely. So that whole assembly is getting ordered.
No tach, or speedo. I found a couple of originals, but am open to suggestions of aftermarket options (I'd really like something with a gear indicator.)
The start button is actually the little hat button on the right side mounted on the black plastic piece that I'm fairly sure doesn't belong there.
The exhaust is off of a Harley, and doesn't have the sound I'm looking for at all. So that's getting replaced.
No front fender, and as you can see, mud/dirt kicks up onto the front of the engine/exhaust. So that needs remedied.
As I mentioned in the first post, almost all of the electrical is FUBAR. So that's all getting redone with new wires, caps, splices, etc.
I'm not too keen on the bars like that. I get that this is the Cafe racer look, but I'm not sure I want to leave it like that yet. I'm going to address the functional problems first. Then I'll get to comfort and aesthetics.

That's the plan as it stands. More videos will follow. If you'd like to see something specific, PLEASE ASK! I am not well versed enough in this field to know what others may want to specifically see.

 

[eil]

Hiya! I served in the Air Force for a time and worked on avionics as well, although most of that was in a nice comfy climate-controlled back shop so maybe it doesn't count.

Looks like you have a good place to start from with that bike. It will be a great learning experience and you've stumbled upon the single best vintage motorcycle community on the web. Here are some random observations:

First, see the link in my signature to the mega-welcome. It contains pointers to more information than you thought existed for your bike including factory owners manuals, Suzuki service manuals, tutorials, and random but incredibly useful information.

Instead of troubleshooting issues in an ad-hoc fashion like a lot of new motorcyclists do, make a point to go through the bike with a fine-tooth comb. Get the bike caught up on all of its regular maintenance. Change the fluids, adjust the valves, rebuild the brakes, inspect the charging system, etc. This is for your safety as well as to give you a good baseline for further troubleshooting if issues remain.

I can't tell if the bike has the stock airbox, but there's an extremely good chance that the previous owner (PO) ditched it and threw on some crap $10 ebay pod filters. If that's the case, you're probably going to run into performance issues because the PO almost certainly didn't tune the carburetors correctly either. If you run into this, it would be a good idea to source an airbox so that you can get it closer to the stock configuration and then go from there.

Agree with you on the bars and fender. Those bars just don't look comfortable and the metal flames sticking out from them are pretty much going to impale a valuable body part if you crash. New (or used) bars are cheap and widely available. A fender will protect the bike (and you) from dirt and debris, and it provides a fair amount of stiffness to the forks that you're going to want when pushing the bike around curves.

There are aftermarket options for gauges and they will work well, but they will be as much or more expensive than a set of used stockers. And they probably won't have gear shift indicators.

Finally, thumbs up to you for trying to go about this the right way. Especially in regards to getting the proper training before striking out on your own. Just don't forget that riding is a lifelong learning experience.

Welcome!

 

[Gambit]

Here's a short video showing the "start button" on my newly acquired GS450.

http://youtu.be/F3TGAGKvCZ8

 

[Gambit]

Ok, been slacking on posting but I'll push this update out. Since last I posted I've pulled off my carbs. Cleaning them wasn't too intense, but I am concerned about the state of some of the rubber pieces. The floats are also the originals I'm assuming because they are all plastic. Most of the videos and such that I've checked out, the floats are at least partially metal. The material only concerns me due to eventual molecular breakdown. Are aftermarket floats even a thing? My choke lever is also garbage. I think it was taken off a lawnmower or something because it most definitely does not fit. The T where the fuel line splits off to each carb has obviously been repaired, so I'd like to replace that. There's some rubber that is splitting on part of the choke manifold. Don't know how else to describe it. I'm about to make a video for better clarification on some of this since I may be labeling some of this stuff wrong.
I've already got the gauge cluster and the starter solenoid replacements. I haven't installed them yet because I'm still messing with the carbs.
Soooo, I'm pretty much stalled until I can replace the parts on this carb, or just suck it up and use it as is until I can find a salvage yard with one of these floating around in it.

 

[Gambit]

A quick walk around the bike that gets up close and personal with some issues I've found.

https://youtu.be/32zjfZ-ozzs

 

[Gambit]

Quick update. It's becoming apparent that this "little" bike is meant to be a cafe. I can find other bars for it, but then I'd have to swap out all kinds of wires and such for them to reach up to bars that would actually be comfortable for me to sit up with (I'm 6'1) So, for now I'm leaving the bars down. I've ordered just about everything I need to order aside from small stuff like battery covers and such. The carbs are sitting in my living room so I don't forget to clean them (again) and put them back together. I'm currently waiting on some pod filters, starter button/killswitch with casing, a speedo cable, and that should do it for parts needed to ride. There's other cosmetic stuff I want to do, but I can't procrastinate getting the paperwork any longer. I've got the money. Might as well get this thing legal.

As for myself, I picked up the test booklet and such for the dmv to go grab the learners (maybe tomorrow pending time.) Being a vet allows me to get a free riding course at Harley Davidson, but the one near me doesn't offer classes. So I have to track that down, cuz FREE! I've got a DOT helmet with full face, specifically riding gloves, and I have to get my jungle boots reglued cuz MURICA. I've ordered a cam to slap on the helmet and such because I talk to myself anyhow. Might as well record it and let someone else laugh with me. I have a jacket that poses as a riding jacket(but it's hot as FAWK), and I want to hit up the local thrift shops to see if I can manage an actual riding jacket that doesn't have Harley or Kawasaki on it for a decent price. We'll see how that goes. That about covers it. This is where I'm at with this experience thus far. Told you it'd be short.

 

[jbird7262]

Check online for a parts diagram, Parts Outlaw, Bike Bandit, they will show exploded diagrams and have many oem and aftermarket parts, also get a owners manual. I checked online and that looks like the correct choke lever, though they call it a starter lever and the T- nipple is also available.

 

[Gambit]

So, lost a slide spring out of the carburetor. It had to have grown legs or something. I don't understand how I lose probably the second largest part aside from the housing itself, but whatever. Had to order another one. I'm otherwise ready for reassembly. Still trying to find someone to 'jet' my carbs for the pod filters. Watched a few youtube vids that KINDA show how to do it. Looks like more of an art than a science. Tweak, try, rinse repeat until the desired mix is achieved.
Found something out about this bike though that may interest someone. Typical VIN's for this bike would be like GS450EX98070987. This is not the case on this bike. I have no model designator. And my VIN ends in seven 0's. Not sure what this actually means. The color scheme is consistent as seen in the videos and photos. So I'm not sure what else to do to Identify what model this is.
At any rate, got a plate for the bike. It's legal with historic tags. Insurance is paid for a year. NO GOING BACK NOW!

 

[Gambit]

Got the carbs back on, the Tach hooked up, the bars are flipped, received in a center stand, grabbed a front fender, installed some 'standard' mirrors and took the bar mirrors off since they rotated with the throttle(and the throttle was loose anyhow), installed a new throttle housing (to deal with the rigged up kill/start switches), and turned her over today........But here's my issues:

Bike idles at around 4k. Not sure if that's normal?
Getting it just to idle was a fun balancing act.
As soon as throttle is applied, it bogs down and usually dies. Only way I can even get it to idle is with the choke lever all the way down and take the pod filters off. I'm thinking too much fuel?
I can't find neutral? (this may be operator error)
I have NO idea where the black (ground) cable coming directly from the housing is SUPPOSED to go. As seen in videos, it was rigged by the PO. Now that I have a button, I'd like to just use that, but can't due to the wiring diagram not providing WHICH post I should attach this ground cable to. A photo would be lovely. Also, the Yellow/Green wire that SHOULD be for the start button is currently spliced to the old kill switch wiring. Not sure if that should be a thing.
I'd like to sand/paint the exhaust pipes (headers?) but not sure what paint would withstand that heat.
My Petcock lever is way too hard to move. I tried the fixall attempt with WD40. No Dice. Not sure if the hassle would be worth a new one.

THIS IS WHERE YOU FOLKS COME IN!

 

[tkent02]

"Bike idles at around 4k. Not sure if that's normal?" No, around 1,200 or 1,300 RPM. Not sure the spec for the 450, mine idles fine at 1,200. or 1,000. or 800. But I think 1,200 is about what they recommend.

"Getting it just to idle was a fun balancing act." Shouldn't be if all of the carb maintenance was done properly. You did do the carb maintenance? edit, I reread your post. If you didn't replace the orings and dip the whole works or use an ultrasonic cleaner, you didn't do the required carburetor maintenance. The floats are plastic, they don't need to be replaced unless someone broke them.

"As soon as throttle is applied, it bogs down and usually dies. Only way I can even get it to idle is with the choke lever all the way down and take the pod filters off. I'm thinking too much fuel?"

Not jetted properly for the pods. What kind are they? Cheap pods are a bitch to tune. Good ones take some time and effort too, if you understand what you are doing. If you do not understand, you have some reading to do. If you're not willing to read, just get it sort of running and put it on Craigslist.


"I can't find neutral? (this may be operator error)" It probably has something to do with the high idle and the improperly adjusted clutch.

"I have NO idea where the black (ground) cable coming directly from the housing is SUPPOSED to go." Should go from the battery (-) post to the engine. Any bolt on the engine case will do. Dunno about the rest of your wires, but POs suck.


"I'd like to sand/paint the exhaust pipes (headers?) but not sure what paint would withstand that heat." Wood stove paint. Exhaust header paint. Probably have to touch it up once in a while anyway.

My Petcock lever is way too hard to move. I tried the fixall attempt with WD40. No Dice. Not sure if the hassle would be worth a new one." Just get a new one. It probably does't seal anymore anyway.

If you must, try lubing it inside with Silicone lube. But I bet it leaks.

 

[Gambit]

Tkent, thanks for the advice. Knowing where it should Idle will help a ton. I didn't want to mess with it too much until I at least got that corrected. I'm assuming this can be adjusted via the idle screw which is the big grippy knob between the carbs. I'll give that a shot. As far as tuning the carbs, I haven't. But the PO seemed to have tuned it to not have filters at all. As has been explained, this bike was not properly maintained, and I can tell that much with my rudimentary understanding of motorcycles. I did not replace any O rings, as I don't see the need at this point. The carbs aren't leaking as far as I can tell. Which is huge, because they did before I tore em off and conducted what maintenance I was confident in, and felt needed doing. So I'm at least making improvements. There's no way I'm abandoning this bike now. So the craigslist suggestion will never be an option. Aside from BikeCliff's managerie of knowledge, I'm also trying to pull from various other sources, but none seem to be specifically addressing the issues I'm running into. This is why I'm here.

As I said, getting that idle right is the first step of many to getting this thing road worthy. I'm not scared of reading or work. But I'd like to avoid reading stuff that doesn't help me with the problems I encounter. So, I thank you for your input. I'll keep posting progress.

 

[Gambit]

After looking at the bike for two beers, the yellow/green wire that should go to the starter button was hotwired to the kill switch. This is how that black ground wire that I mentioned was being used to start the bike. So, based on what tkent said about that ground wire being connected to ground, I'm assuming wiring that yellow/green wire properly will create proper functionality of the starter button. It seems so simple now....but this was two problems that had me scratching my head as to why it would be wired that way and where it should go.

I was thinking that the black wire was supposed to go to the solenoid somehow and was just stuck on that idea.

Edit: The black wire I'm speaking of goes to the under side of the transmission housing. I'm assuming it's going to the starter. This would make sense as to why the PO was using this for the 'starter button' and it wouldn't impact anything else. So, the hot wire is actuated as opposed to the ground. That's opposite of how I've seen other electronics work, and why I would think the black ground should go to some sort of switch. But it still works in theory. Cutting off the hot or the ground ends the circuit. Pressing the button closes the hot side and allows juice. But this is why its called learning and not just doing.

 

[Gambit]

Got the starter/killswitch issue worked out. I still need to find the correct size end (6g to 5/16 bolt.) But for now, I've got it working. I'm still battling the high idle issue. I've seen suggestions ranging from coils to jets. I'm thinking smaller jets may be in order since I've adjusted the throttle cable to just a hair beyond play in the wrist. Even with play, the idle is still at around 3.5k. I would imagine that putting pod filters on would allow for more air, meaning a need for more gas. But the problem seems to be too much gas, so I'm at a bit of a loss. If increased airflow requires more gas, then bigger jets should be the answer. If increased air requires less gas, then smaller jets are required. So, which do I do?

 

[Gambit]

Solved the Neutral issue. Wasn't actually getting to first. Counted five gears. There's really six. So I was trying to find N between 2 and 3. Rocked it a bit and bam. Problem solved. So all I'm dealing with now is the idle issue. Rejetting tune battle initiated.

 

[Gambit]

While attempting to take out the jets to get new ones, I broke one inside the housing. The place I could typically get a new carb is closed for the next two weeks for vacation. So, either I find a fun new way to get that jet out of the bowl, or replace the bowl, or just get a new pair all together. Everything else on the bike is in fine working order. Even have a set of OEM pegs on the way. Meh.

 

[RaiderGT]

How exactly did it break? Do you have a picture?

 

[Gambit]

Raider, the walls for the flathead screwdriver broke. It's inconsequential at this point though. Picked up some Left Handed drill bits (actual thing.) 9/64 bit managed to grab it and since it's left handed, screwed it right out. Local bike shops are closed on sundays, so Wednesday I get to go buy some new jets and play around with stuff until I find something that works. This is the last real hurdle for having it on the road. I still have to run about six inches of wire for the tail light and replace a few bulbs. I'm still playing with color schemes for plastidip. So that's also happening, but nothing major aside from the "idles at 4k" issue. I did take it for a ride, but with the idle so high, you have no choice but to go break neck speeds just to shift and then try to not die as you hang on. In that regard, the engine and tranny are super strong

 

[Gambit]

Also, since I'm not likely riding until Sunday anyhow, at this point, I ordered a new O-ring kit from cycleorings for 8 bucks. 10 with shipping. That was super easy. Since the old motor heads on here consistently demand new rings, I figured I'd oblige.