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1981 16v 750 oil cooler idea...opinions?

  • Thread starter Thread starter makenzie71
  • Start date Start date
M

makenzie71

Guest
Okay, the way I see it is that adding a cooler robs oil from important components and takes it away from the filter stream. Here's my idea for avoiding both issues and I would like the all-knowing here to lend ideas.

Oil will be sourced from the spout located beneath the points cover.

Oil will flow from the source to a separate filter housing (using a standard canister style oil filter) that I'll locate beneath the carburetors. I've also considered using an inline high pressure fuel filter, but don't really know the difference between the flow characteristics of an oil filter vs. a fuel filter.

Oil will flow from the filter to the oil cooler, which will be located in the typical area.

Oil will flow from the cooler to ports on the valve cover, draining in over the #1 and #4 cylinders. This may sound like a hassle for installing and removing the cover but I've got a way around that but it's hard to describe...I'll post pics of the drawings and concept later.

Opinions?
 
How about this...run synthetic oil like Shell Rotella. Synthetic oil has better film strength and will provide protection at higher temps than dino oil. GS engines are HEAVY and have a lot of metal in them to disapate heat. As long as the oil temp stays down below 275 F or so, I don't think there is serious concern.

Sounds like you should install a proper oil temp gauge and see what reality is before worrying too much.
 
I have one :)...my temps are in the 195*f range...it's more for kicks now.
 
Dumping the oul back in over the combustion chambers may not be ideal. That's where oil picks up most of its heat. Getting it back to the pan first would be ideal.
 
Well that was my original idea but everyone thought robbing the oil from the system and returning it to the pan was a bad idea. I thought this woul work similar to a top-end oiler.
 
You'll probably be able to lubricate the bottom end fine with your proposal on sending the oil to the valves. In the production implimentation the 'split' from bottom end to top end is made at the base of the cylinders, then routed to the top end through a bolt passage. So, you just moved the split a foot upstream. What bothers me is that you're probably not solving anything, unless of course, you are running oversized head bolts and hence have a restriced oil flow to the head.

As to the idea of tapping the port below the ignition cover, I believe that's directly in line with output of the old filter. It should work as a good oil source as long as you block the old path to the cylinder base. If you don't do that, only a portion of the oil will flow through your added route. The second issue with placing a fitting there - don't drop it on the right side. There's a strong possibility the fitting will break off and you're done no matter how slight the accident. You'll probably need case savers.

The 16v engines are low-pressure, high-flow, so you'll need a filter to match. Putting a high-pressure filter in-line with your lubrication sysxtem would be catastrophic. If you intend on using the original filter why do you need another?

One thing to mention - coolers do not rob oil from important components and take it away from the filter stream - correctly installed that is.

Your idea should work fine (no matter what return path you use - cylinder base or head), if you plan to use case savers, if you eliminate the external filter, and don't care that there is a possibly less restrictive path through the engine. It's really not a bad idea, I just think you (I believe it was you) had a better idea of tapping from the oil filter cover. That point would be about a foot upstream of the one under the points cover and out of harms way.
 
The idea was to install a banjo bolt and banjo, then a hard line routing the oil along the curve of the points cover to the area under the carbs.

It was my understanding, though, that the 16v engine was high pressure/low volume.

I got more stuff to write but no time...lol...will return.
 
makenzie71 said:
The idea was to install a banjo bolt and banjo, then a hard line routing the oil along the curve of the points cover to the area under the carbs.

It was my understanding, though, that the 16v engine was high pressure/low volume.

I got more stuff to write but no time...lol...will return.
Click to expand...
The 16v'ers are low pressure. I'm not sure about other Suzuki's.

Even if they were high pressure systems, you'd be mixing filters for different viscosities. It would be a giant restriction. Why do you want an external filter anyway? Do you intend to not use the production unit?
 
reddirtrider said:
The 16v'ers are low pressure. I'm not sure about other Suzuki's.

Even if they were high pressure systems, you'd be mixing filters for different viscosities. It would be a giant restriction. Why do you want an external filter anyway? Do you intend to not use the production unit?
Click to expand...

The 16v 750 has a high pressure bottom end since it has plain bearings on the crank. The top end does not need much pressure, just a steady flow.
 
The only reason I posted about dumping the oil over the combustion chambers is that the oil would be heated up again before it reaches the rest of the engine. On one hand it might defeat the purpose of the cooler. On the other hand you would be cooling the combustion chambers a little and that would be desirable. It might even lower the overall temps in the long run. I guess there's only one way to fnd out.
 
The inline filter idea was just a passing thought...I assumed it wouldn't be applicable, but would be convenient. I don't like open element filters, though. I MUCH prefer canister types...though I wouldn't be bypassing it entirely. I just wanted to make sure the oil to the cooler was filtered, but if the tap under the points cover is filtered oil then that's redundant.
 
Nessism said:
The 16v 750 has a high pressure bottom end since it has plain bearings on the crank. The top end does not need much pressure, just a steady flow.
Click to expand...
The 16v 750 doesn't have roller bearings on the crank? Wow, never knew that. Ok, I was wrong. You still can't use a fuel filter for oil.

Yep, looked some up on Ebay and they sure don't have roller bearings. Cheap pieces of crap. lol
 
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reddirtrider said:
The 16v 750 doesn't have roller bearings on the crank? Wow, never knew that. Ok, I was wrong. You still can't use a fuel filter for oil.

Yep, looked some up on Ebay and they sure don't have roller bearings. Cheap pieces of crap. lol
Click to expand...
Think Hayabusas are crap too? cause they and all other modern bikes have plain bearings.:rolleyes:
Edit: I got more:
18,000 rpm F-1 cars
Nascar engines
5,000 HP nitromethane Top Fuel Funny cars and dragsters
:)
 
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If you're going to return the oil to the topend how about utilizing a topend oiler kit?
 
gearhead13 said:
Think Hayabusas are crap too? cause they and all other modern bikes have plain bearings.:rolleyes:
Edit: I got more:
18,000 rpm F-1 cars
Nascar engines
5,000 HP nitromethane Top Fuel Funny cars and dragsters
:)
Click to expand...
I don't suppose you noticed my laughing.

Crap in this case is relative. There's no doubt the roller bearing system is superior to a bearing system that relies on oil presure alone. The drawback is that it's heavier and more expensive to manufacture.
 
makenzie71 said:
Doesn't a top-end oiler just dump the oil on/around the cams?
Click to expand...
The topend system came about as a solution to restricting the flow of oil to the cams when using oversized studs. It's nothing more than a solution to a problem developed by modifications. The stock system works just fine. They look cool, but the bottom line is unless you have oversized studs, they aren't necessary.
 
Billy Ricks said:
If you're going to return the oil to the topend how about utilizing a topend oiler kit?
Click to expand...
I agree that it's probably a better idea to route the oil return from the cooler to the bottom end, rather than the top, particularly now since I know the 750 doesn't use roller bearings.

There still is a hole in this entire scheme, and that is the cooler is only going to get a fraction (how much is debatable) of the oil flow.
 
If pulling the oil for the cooler off of the main galley and not routing it to the pressureized side of the cams you will very likely starve the cams and ruin the head. the 16V head is prone to this failure already so I would be very careful. I beleave the correct way to route a coole on an early 16v 750 requires the use of a redesigned oil filter cover plate. This is what I have on my 82 750. if you look at the filter area on the 750 case you will see that the pump supplies oil to a hole in the lowe side of the filter chamber. the existing cover dumps this oil to the outside of the filter element which it passes through and goes to the main galley. the cooler filter cover routes this oil through the cover to the cooler then back to the cover on the opposite lower side where it is supplied to the filter element. this setup will not change the oil pressure distribution through out the engine it mearly routes the oilfrom the pump through the cooler before it hits the filter and is distributed to the engine. If this doesn't make sense let me know and I will try to clearify. I could maybe try drawing you a skecth if necessary.
 
^I would love to see a pic of your cover when you change your oil again!
 
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