1981 GS450E Rebuild

[scottychop]

Congrats Pete!!

 

[Leigh]

IT'S ALIIIIIVE!!

 

[Nessism]

Pete,

Those rags over the carb mouth are causing the richness since not enough air is getting though. If you have the stock airbox you might want it install it and try again.

 

[Flyboy]

Congrats mate, good on ya, on the home stretch now.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Congratulations Pete and keep at it...you'll have it purring like a kitten in no time.

 

[Guest]

Thanks all, and yes it is indeed alive!!!! :dancing:

Ed, I'm currently contemplating putting the stock airbox back on as I've had others point out the same thing regarding the rags, and it definitely makes sense that that's the issue. Thanks for confirming this again

So, I'm thinking now... put the stock airbox on, and get Tranzac to make the exhaust as I want, except put on a muffler that replicates the OEM restrictiveness so I don't have to rejet.

At that stage, I can get the thing registered and do the break in according to the Motoman break in stuff without stuffing around with rejetting.

Once that's done, I can get the K&N pods on, and potentially a freer flowing can from Tranzac so I can get what I really want.

My main concern right now is that I want to run the thing in right and get those rings bedded in without stuffing around under no load trying to get jetting right.

Thoughts on this?

Also, I got the dremel out tonight and cut a bit out of each side of the GS650G seat I got off eBay to try to get it to sit right on the frame.

Well, it definitely sat down better on the frame, but it also shows me that it's still almost 2 inches short of the rear of the frame, meaning it's still not really going to suit what I want, which is a flat seat going all the way back. Oh well, back to the drawing board...

 

[john82q]

Bs

Bs

My main concern right now is that I want to run the thing in right and get those rings bedded in without stuffing around under no load trying to get jetting right.

Thoughts on this?

Iam gunna stick my neck out and say BS...
this whole running in rigmorale is over rated. your bikes gunna run fine regardless of what running in regime you use.

Yes I know some promenate racing types and engineers have said this that and the other, about running in, and theres various web pages extolling virtues of one method over the other, with alleged measurable results on dynos and race tracks, with regard to power and componet life, and on and on ad nauseum.

Thing is will the average suburban punter notice this difference in power and life? not really...

my advice, (opinion if you like)
just don't let it overheat, keep the runs short and let it cool down between, dont worry about revs other than no slogging, long idles, or freeways, after a while you will notice when the engine frees up, (any where from 500K to 1000) Change the oil,Then its done... Thats based on my own practical experiances.

Now in your case you want pods and flash new exhaust, well go straight there. Dont frigg around with airboxes and some other ex you didnt want.

That said you will have to use your common sense and work out if its rich or lean, and fix it, quick.


Opinonated old cuss arnt I


John.

 

[Big Rich]

First off, congrats Pete. I've heard so many different ways to break in a new motor.......I just bought a new Suzuki truck and the break in is: don't go over 4,000 rpm or ride at maintained rpm's for extended periods until reaching 1,200 miles. Surly there was an engineer that typed that......

What kind of filter are you going for? I bought a K&N "lunchbox" for my GR650 (haven't installed it yet though). Makes sense to have both carbs breathing the same air.

http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Upgrades.AirFilter

 

[Leigh]

Iam gunna stick my neck out and say BS...
this whole running in rigmorale is over rated. your bikes gunna run fine regardless of what running in regime you use.

Yes I know some promenate racing types and engineers have said this that and the other, about running in, and theres various web pages extolling virtues of one method over the other, with alleged measurable results on dynos and race tracks, with regard to power and componet life, and on and on ad nauseum.

Thing is will the average suburban punter notice this difference in power and life? not really...

my advice, (opinion if you like)
just don't let it overheat, keep the runs short and let it cool down between, dont worry about revs other than no slogging, long idles, or freeways, after a while you will notice when the engine frees up, (any where from 500K to 1000) Change the oil,Then its done... Thats based on my own practical experiances.

Now in your case you want pods and flash new exhaust, well go straight there. Dont frigg around with airboxes and some other ex you didnt want.

That said you will have to use your common sense and work out if its rich or lean, and fix it, quick.


Opinonated old cuss arnt I


John.

Seconded..
Not the old cuss bit.
Pete, just go and ride it.
Vary the revs and don't labour it.

I worked with a bloke who ran a Z1000 as a speedway bike. His run in procedure was a huge burnout the length of his driveway at the farm.
His motors lasted a season before he'd tear them down, clean them up and repeat the process.

 

[Guest]

Well... firstly I listen to all opinions equally... and John I couldn't give a rats if you're an opinionated ol' cuss... I'm gettin' a bit that way myself these days so it's all good...

So, I'm still not 100% decided, but I went down and looked closer tonight and I realised a few things...

Firstly, getting the exhaust made how I want it means no stock electrics tray on the left side of the frame, meaning I still need to relocate that.

If I put the airbox on, I can't put the electrics tray where I need to under the seat and I will have to move it back towards the rear wheel, which mean's I'll have to start mucking with the wiring harness because a lot of the wires won't reach back there. I really don't want to muck with the stock harness and if I have to do something like that, I'd much rather make up a new one, but that's going to add a fair bit more time onto the build and I wanna ride this year!

So, I'm thinking right now I'm definitely going to stick with going my K&N route, which solves the electrics problem.

If I'm going to do that, then i might as well get the free flowing exhaust and just make sure I have some jets handy and some washers to shim the needles, and then plug chops will be the way forward.

Thanks for all the replies guys, and yeah there are so many different opinions and thoughts and advice regarding break-in it makes my head spin.

The Motoman break-in I've been pointed to on here makes a lot of sense even if it is "controversial", but having said that, I'm sure there's a certain amount of leeway where I can get it running right but still give it some berries to get those rings bedded in.

And also, the worst thing I can think is that I'll have to pop the top end off again and get the cylinders rehoned. They were well within spec and the rings are brand new, so a hone job, base gasket, maybe head gasket, and some O rings for the cylinders should be all that's required if I have to do that, plus a few hours of my time. I've been without it for 9 years, what's another weekend or two if it comes to that?

Maybe I have decided... we'll see.

Either way, I'm not going to start it again until I've got the exhaust done, carbs rejetted, and pods on.

Does that make some sense? I hope so, because I think I've convinced myself now...

John, that also means I gotta get your scope back to you soon too because if I use it again on this, it will be a while away. Will try to get it back to you this weekend.

 

[Guest]

Wow that last post was huge... sorry... hope it's not too painful to read!

Anyway, did some stuff to the electrics tray tonight.

Removed the highly engineered temporary starter solenoid bracket and R/R etc.



Tray is to go here:



And it looks like everything should fit fairly well:



If I can get a small enough enclosure for the ignition circuit, then the indicator relay can go where it is there, otherwise I may have to mount it underneath the tray which is no biggie.

You can't quite see them in the photo, but there's two pilot holes at the front to the left of the R/R connector so i can mount the starter solenoid underneath.

The harness will run along the left side of the tray and exit through the cutout in the back left corner.

I've gotta finish drilling out the holes and get some more M4 bolts to mount things up as I only have M6's currently. At the moment I only have pilot holes drilled.

I also still have a reasonable size heatsink to mount to the bottom of the tray where the HEI modules are, so some heatsink compound from the modules to the tray and then from the heatsink to the tray should give it some nice cooling ability.

I'm also contemplating moving the R/R underneath the tray so it gets a bit more airflow.

 

[landshark]

Im not in the know like a lot of others pete, but most mechanics i know believe "break it in how you will ride it"

 

[Guest]

Cheers landshark, there're certainly different schools of thought on break-in.

I think I'm just gonna do what I can to get as close as I can to the Motoman stuff, but I'll have to count on some leeway to get what I want done as well.

Only time will tell, and worst case will mean a new hone job...

 

[Guest]

Some more tinkering with the electrics tray tonight, and I'm pretty happy I've got it where I need it minus the tidy up.

The black box is just something I had lying around to simulate where the ignition circuit will go, and there's no reason for it to be this big. R/R and starter solenoid are underneath and I made up a bracket to support the indicator relay.



Ran the harness approximately where it will go, and it'll be a little tight, but it should work well. Starter solenoid and R/R plug in ok as does the indicator relay, and it will be easy to plug the ignition module in there also.



So all I need to do is get a grinding wheel back on the bench grinder and get rid of all the sharp edges off the tray, extend the starter motor power lead, and I'll most likely need to do something with the positive battery terminal. I also need some better bolts, both shorter ones and smaller diameter.

Other than that, it should just be a matter of finalising the ignition circuit and getting it into a suitable enclosure and making sure everything is grounded well.

I now really need to do something about:

- A seat
- A rear mudguard
- Lights and indicators
- Suspension
- Exhaust
- Tyres
- Front brake
- Paint

Some of that is just time, but a lot of it is going to be $$$, so time to start working out the budget...

 

[Leigh]

I now really need to do something about:

- A seat
- A rear mudguard
- Lights and indicators
- Suspension
- Exhaust
- Tyres
- Front brake
- Paint

Some of that is just time, but a lot of it is going to be $$$, so time to start working out the budget...

Nearly done then, Pete. Just the little stuff to go eh?

 

[Guest]

Nearly done then, Pete. Just the little stuff to go eh?

Yeah you got it! Minor incidentals...

 

[Guest]

Well it seems I really desperately need to get some daytime time again so I can clean the engine down before I attempt to start it again later on.

Went down tonight and noticed...



I'm assuming it's been there since the other day when I started it, but I haven't really looked under there as I was concentrating on the electrics tray.

So I looked closer:



The front left side is very wet with oil, but i can't tell at the moment if it's leaking from somewhere that should've been sealed or if it's just what was running down the fins from when I left those two bolts out of the head.

I need to clean it up and check all the bolts to see if they're still torqued up properly.

I also noticed this:



The valve cover gasket appears to be damp all the way around and it seems to make the valve cover itself a little damp too.

Is this normal? I'm a little concerned right now...

Anyway, I decided not to get sidetracked, but to keep moving on.

So it was 'bar mounted choke lever time tonight.

First I took off the choke lever:



And yep, I still have the rag clamped onto the intake, but that's just to keep insects and things out while it's sitting and to stop me having to pull the K&N pods out of the plastic until I'm ready for them as they're pre-oiled.

Next up, I wanted to see if the OEM throttle cable would work as that's what I modelled the carb bracket on initially.

So, seeing as the choke cable connection to the left control is completely different to the throttle connection, I had to make up a bracket.

It's quite agricultural and needs some smoothing up and probably some black paint at some point, but it seems to be strong enough to hold the cable in place and let the choke lever actuate the cable.



There's a lip on the end of the throttle cable that the bracket basically clamps to the base of the left control by one of the mounting screws. Pretty simple really.

It looks like the length is good as I ran it down to the left carb and I can turn the 'bars fully left and right without it binding or causing the cable to retract or anything, so that's pretty cool.



All that remains is to find a way to get it clamped to the choke actuator there and i should be laughing.

The choke assemblies on each carb have springs built in, so it feels like I won't need to add a return spring or anything like that either which will be even better.

 

[Leigh]

I saw that first photo and thought "Aww, Pete is just like my little dog. He does that when he gets too excited as well".


That rocker cover gasket looks like ;

• Not torqued down.
• Needs re-torquing.
• Fibrous gasket soaking up the oil.

What's the gasket made of?
Back in my days of making cars go faster (until I realised bikes were already fast) I used Fel-Pro gaskets. They weren't paper and didn't soak up the oil.
Did use Gasket goo?
That Permatex #3 is the stuff. Horrible black sticky crap that really does it's job.

 

[Guest]

I saw that first photo and thought "Aww, Pete is just like my little dog. He does that when he gets too excited as well".

Haha no, I wasn't runnin' round the garage wigglin' my butt peein' on the floor

I was possibly panting when I saw the oil on the motor though...

That rocker cover gasket looks like ;

• Not torqued down.
• Needs re-torquing.
• Fibrous gasket soaking up the oil.

What's the gasket made of?
Back in my days of making cars go faster (until I realised bikes were already fast) I used Fel-Pro gaskets. They weren't paper and didn't soak up the oil.
Did use Gasket goo?
That Permatex #3 is the stuff. Horrible black sticky crap that really does it's job.

The gaskets all appear fibrous to my untrained eye, so that certainly could be it.

I'd already torqued everything down, but maybe because it's now had some heat it needs a re-torque, even if it was only a short run that didn't really get decent heat into it.

As for the gasket goo, I'm not keen putting that on any surface other than where it's supposed to go, especially not the valve cover because that will become a royal PITA during every valve adjustment.

 

[Leigh]

The other thing is to flat edge the head and the cover. Make sure they aren't warped.

Put the gasket goo on one side of the gasket if you need to.
But scraping goo off each time you need to lift the cover is a small price to pay.