1982 GS 550L not firing...can anyone help me?

[CrazyFazy]

first off let me introduce myself. My name is Eric and i am from western md. I have worked on bikes actually quite a bit through out my life but do not claim to be an expert...that is why i am here...lol I bought the bike for $100 off of a guy who said the previous owner before him had some electrical issues. This guy replaced the 2 coils on the bike with new ones. Why he had to cut the wires from the old ones i do not know. I am not even sure if they are wired correctly. There is 2 orange wires. a black/yellow, and a white that he had hooked up to the coil. I do not believe this is right. My push button to start the bike is broken off so i turn the key on and jump the cellunoid with a piece of wire. When i turn the key on 2 of these wires are hot and 2 are not. When i put them on one side of the coil say the positive then the negative on the coil gets hot. The problem is i am getting nothing to the plug itself as in fire. I cannot find a wiring diagram telling me what wires go to each coil from the harness. If i can figure this out at least if i am not getting any fire i can rule the wiring to the coils out. I figured if i was getting power to the one side of the coil then the coil should fire but i guess not..lol Anyway guys i am willing to listen and learn so any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[CrazyFazy]

ok quick question first...does the kickstand or clutch safety cause a bike to not get spark. The bike turns over with the key on and bypassing the cellunoid but no spark to plugs. This has nothing to do with the fire does it as i am bypassing the start switch? Also have done alot of reading but not sure where the ignitor is located? Am i right reading that the signal generator is actually the stator and that this goes from here to the ignitor to the coils? If so then does the stator have to be good in order to fire the bike or is this to charge the system? Getting a headache....lol

 

[posplayr]

first off let me introduce myself. My name is Eric and i am from western md. I have worked on bikes actually quite a bit through out my life but do not claim to be an expert...that is why i am here...lol I bought the bike for $100 off of a guy who said the previous owner before him had some electrical issues. This guy replaced the 2 coils on the bike with new ones. Why he had to cut the wires from the old ones i do not know. I am not even sure if they are wired correctly. There is 2 orange wires. a black/yellow, and a white that he had hooked up to the coil. I do not believe this is right. My push button to start the bike is broken off so i turn the key on and jump the cellunoid with a piece of wire. When i turn the key on 2 of these wires are hot and 2 are not. When i put them on one side of the coil say the positive then the negative on the coil gets hot. The problem is i am getting nothing to the plug itself as in fire. I cannot find a wiring diagram telling me what wires go to each coil from the harness. If i can figure this out at least if i am not getting any fire i can rule the wiring to the coils out. I figured if i was getting power to the one side of the coil then the coil should fire but i guess not..lol Anyway guys i am willing to listen and learn so any help would be greatly appreciated.

you should be able to find a manual and schematic for your bike over at Bassclifs website. On your coils the two orange wires are (ignition key and kill switch) switched +12V. When the key if off the +12V goes away. When key/kill are on then +12V will be at the coils. The black/yellow and the white are the control wires from the igniter. The igniter will alternating ground these wires so that current flows from the +12V to the ground. When the grounds are lifted the coil current collapses and it generates a big spark to the spark plug.

A simplified diagram of a 550 is shown here. It should be consistent with yours.

http://www.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/gs/550_Schematic.pdf

The white wire controls 1-4 and the B/Y controls 2-3.

the behavior of the voltages on the wires can be a little confusing so I won't go into it any further, but it sounds OK from what I can tell from what you are describing. But rather than go down that road, just connect the coils like it says in the picture. Put a volt meter on the negative side of the coils (wither B/Y or W). You should see that voltage go between 1.5V and 12.5V as you crank the engine over (slowly by hand). If not then he ignitor is bad.

When the ignitor is not grounding say the B/Y, then you will see the same voltage on both sides of the coil. All these measurements are with the coils installed and the key on.

 

[posplayr]

ok quick question first...does the kickstand or clutch safety cause a bike to not get spark. The bike turns over with the key on and bypassing the cellunoid but no spark to plugs. This has nothing to do with the fire does it as i am bypassing the start switch? Also have done alot of reading but not sure where the ignitor is located? Am i right reading that the signal generator is actually the stator and that this goes from here to the ignitor to the coils? If so then does the stator have to be good in order to fire the bike or is this to charge the system? Getting a headache....lol

clutch bypass is normally in series with the Green/Yellow wire to energize the solenoid (connected to the battery). Basically it stops the starter from cranking over. Not sure how you bypassed the kill switch. It normally controls both the Orange +12V wire and the Green/Yellow wire to the solenoid.


Igniter is under the seat probably mounted to battery box or side plate.

yes the stator has to be good to charge. It is what generates the three phase power that is rectified and regulated by the R/R. The bike should start with a good battery regardless of charging system as long as you have more than 11volts to the coils.

signal generator is under the right hand side cover and tells (signals) the igniter when to "ground" (1.5V) and float(12V) the coil primary wires (B/Y and W).


This is just a guess, but it sounds like with your kill switch being broken you are failing to power the whole ignition circuit. yes the coils seem to be powered but your ignitor also needs 12V. I would suggest getting a new kill switch; and restoring your harness back to the way it was originally. The kill switch (has a short harness) and attaches to the harness through a plug normally in the head lamp bucket.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Posplayr is definitely one of the guys I'd turn to with electrical guru stuff, but, and I'm sure he'd agree, picking up a manual for your bike is a must for this and many other reasons. It will have a wiring diagram in it as well, and while Posplayr can teach you quite a bit if you pay attention, it's difficult to grasp what you'll be looking at and needing to do without having a diagram to reference.

 

[posplayr]

Posplayr is definitely one of the guys I'd turn to with electrical guru stuff, but, and I'm sure he'd agree, picking up a manual for your bike is a must for this and many other reasons. It will have a wiring diagram in it as well, and while Posplayr can teach you quite a bit if you pay attention, it's difficult to grasp what you'll be looking at and needing to do without having a diagram to reference.

Yes Josh, the manual is the first thing I mentioned. The bobber schematic reco was just because it is a bit simpler (and in color) to see where his kill switch needs to be hooked up. I figured he might have a problem reading the black and white factory manual.

you should be able to find a manual and schematic for your bike over at Bassclifs website.

 

[tom203]

Crazy fazy..... If you follow the orange/white wire down from coils, it will likely terminate in plug- this plug is connected to ignitor. Check to see if you got 12 volts + here when the coils have power- check on both sides of plug to ensure that the plug itself is good. The orange/white wire might change color as it passes thru plug.

 

[Suzuki mad]

Without all the parts in the right place and working correctly that bike isn't going to fire.With what you are saying it sounds to me like the PO has messed with the right hand switch gear/controls which run the kill switch/engine starter.

Best place to start is a manual with a wiring diagram or an on-line version to check what's been mucked around with.

 

[CrazyFazy]

wow alot of great information..thanks guys. Sorry for the confusion about the kill switch though. The kill switch actually works. When it is in the off position there is no spark to the coils but when its on there is. However i do not have to have my clutch in for the bike to turn over so i am guessing the PO must have bypassed it. Whats weird is that 3 wires out f those 4 with the key on are hot i believe going to the coil. I attached the hot to the coil with the key on and there is power coming out of the negative side of the coil. Then when iattached the other wire to the negative side of the coil there was no power on it. This tells me that that wre is grounded somewhere and according to posplayr this should be correct.
i am wondering why that third wire is hot though if its just a signal wire. Also does the 2 orange wires matter which coil they go to? I am heading to look at the schematics now by the way. Once again thanks everyone for helping with this.

 

[tom203]

Yes, looking at wiring diagram will explain alot. Basscliff's site has some colored ones which are a boon to old eyes.

 

[CrazyFazy]

will update results soon....too cold to work on bike right now and getting hell from my wife for doing too much too soon. Just had gallbladder surgery and thought i could resume my daily activities but i guess not....lol Thanks to everyone who has helped...i think with the help from this site i can resurrect this bike!!

 

[tom203]

will update results soon....too cold to work on bike right now and getting hell from my wife for doing too much too soon. Just had gallbladder surgery and thought i could resume my daily activities but i guess not....lol Thanks to everyone who has helped...i think with the help from this site i can resurrect this bike!!

Good for your wife! get some R & R and worry about bike later! Head to Basscliff's site for some reading- that should occupy you for a few weeks.

 

[CrazyFazy]

hate to sound stupid but how do i get to bascliff's site?

 

[Matchless]

hate to sound stupid but how do i get to bascliff's site?

BassCliff will be along soon with your mega welcome and more information than you would ever guess!

In the meantime here is a link to his site: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

Enjoy!

 

[CrazyFazy]

ok guys i worked all day on the bike and here is what i found. When you get mad and tap on the ignitor the bike fires....lol Anyone know where i can find one for a reasonable price?

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Post in parts wanted or check eBay. Just remember that you'd be buying a USED igniter, so it may fire until it gets warm or other problems they have. New igniters are still available I think for around $400 so not really reasonable.

The Dyna S DS3-2 is a popular replacement option. It's available for $120-150, and replaces both the signal generator and igniter (it's a common misunderstanding that it does not replace the igniter because it just looks like the sig gen, but it's a sig gen with the igniter "baked in" - they wire right to the coils). They're quite reliable.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/DynaS-...32--Suzuki-GS-fours-with-ND-ignition-439.aspx

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dyna-S-Elec...es&hash=item58908919c9&vxp=mtr#ht_1868wt_1159

Whatever you do, once you get it running, make sure that you check the charging system on your bike. Very often they're charging at too high a voltage (should top ~14.8V), which can damage the electronics, particularly the igniters.

ok guys i worked all day on the bike and here is what i found. When you get mad and tap on the ignitor the bike fires....lol Anyone know where i can find one for a reasonable price?

 

[CrazyFazy]

does this mount where the old signal was then? It also says you have to buy 3 ohm or greater coils. How can i check my new ones to see if they are ok to use? Also does the wiring get removed from the signal generator to the ignitor and from the ignitor to the coils then? I am assuming this new part would go directly to the coils so i could clean up the old wiring then...is this right? Thanks,,,,eric

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Yes, it mounts where the old sig gen was. You don't have to remove your old igniter wiring, but you should at least unplug the old igniter. I use the 12V+ lead from the igniter harness to power my coil relay. I know it's not easy to remove the igniter (see my sig ), but I did manage with a ratcheting screwdriver set without removing the airbox.

For non-stock coils, you have to measure your coil primary from lead to lead, and that primary should be between 3 and 5 ohms. It works fine with stock coils. The Dyna "green" coils would be the right aftermarket Dyna ones for the job; although rated at 3 ohms, Dyna does not recommend using the mini coils.

The wiring can't get much simpler: your + coil leads get a switched +12V, as does the red Dyna lead, and the - coil primary leads go to their respective coils.

The only gotcha that seems common with the Dyna installation is that the included rotor plus the included spacer are a bit too tall for the EI bikes, and the rotor will not advance when the crank bolt is tightened down. You can either find a thinner washer to use as a spacer, or sand or machine down the top of the rotor or the spacer between half of one to one mm so that the rotor is free to advance (yet cannot come off of the mechanical advance unit).

does this mount where the old signal was then? It also says you have to buy 3 ohm or greater coils. How can i check my new ones to see if they are ok to use? Also does the wiring get removed from the signal generator to the ignitor and from the ignitor to the coils then? I am assuming this new part would go directly to the coils so i could clean up the old wiring then...is this right? Thanks,,,,eric

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Some pics for your entertainment:

Wiring, before I added the coil relay:

 

[CrazyFazy]

mike why are there slots in the plate? My pulse generator didnt have any slots jst holes...is this some sort of adjustment? And where the heck is the points located on this bike...lol Also the one on ebay says it only fits up to a 81 and mine is a 82 although the part numbers are the same...would it still work? Thanks for the help.