1982 GS1100 vs. 2011 FJR1300 vs. 2007 SV1000S

[CivilRock]

I met these two guys road racing 15 years ago. We've been bitter rivals Roadracing, then Supermoto, then Flat Track, then Dirt Bike XC/Harescramble/ISDE competitors, and great friends currently.
I've had my GS1100EZ that's been morphing since 2004 from a stock POS bike to what it is now. I'm the only one that's been to the drags on my bike. One time on the stock 1100 motor in 2013, and once on the 1150 motor last summer (2015).
They both just picked up used bikes for a 10 day trip later this year, and so they can join me at the strip and see what's what.

Who do you think is going to win? Assuming we all have the same skill.
HP/TQ numbers below are taken from the internet and assumed Mfg. numbers at the crank.

Kevin-
1982 GS1100EZ (1150 motor, RS38, VH4-1)
HP: 119-124 (various mag reports)
TQ: 81
WT: 505 lbs. (wet, low fuel, verified)
Rider: 193 lbs.
ET: 11.1 @ 118 (best of one night)

Nathan-
2011 FJR1300 (stock)
HP: 141.5
TQ: 99.1 ft/lbs
WT: 643
Rider: 205 lbs
ET: 10.98 @ 122.29 (Cycle World 2013 test)

Chris-
2007 SV1000S (stock)
HP: 115
TQ: 65 ft/lbs
WT: 456 lbs
Rider: 180 lbs
ET: 10.99 @ 122.6 (Cycle World Mag test 2003)

Since my day at the track, I've added a proper shift light and I bought a fork tie-down strap, and I just ordered a dynajet quickshift kit. I hope with those 3 things I can shave 2 tenths off my time and be right there with these guys.

-Kevin

 

[posplayr]

unless your friends are expert low weight riders you probably have them.

If you want a little more margin, get your cams degreed closer to 110,110
or better yet drop in some 0.348's and they will be toast.

http://www.webcamshafts.com/mobile/motorcycle/suzuki/suzuki_gs_1150_(84-86)_dohc_16v.html
Grind 168

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.348/.348

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282?/282?

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257?/257?

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[CivilRock]

We all weigh about the same. My buddy that used to be 175-180 is apparently 198 lbs right now.

We'll see how it goes. Stage 4 of my everlasting GS build is Porting, Cams, and big bore. I just checked out that link and I'd need high compression pistons?
I looked straight at http://gszone.biz/enginekits.html and I'm not sure if it's the same Mfg, but their 1230 kit comes with .348 lift cams and its supposedly streetable. I assume that means pump gas?

I would love to do cams, ride it for a year, then big bore, ride for a year, then porting but my builder buddy said that will make the cost 3x as much. Plus tuning it 3x will be a PITA.
I'll probably do it all at once. Just hand him the motor and come back a few weeks later with a large wad of cash.

-Kevin

 

[CivilRock]

I know I can't do the porting myself. I have done plenty of big bore kits, but I've screwed up a couple.
Maybe I can drop cams in myself and at least break up some of the build? Can I run .348 cams in an otherwise stock engine?

 

[posplayr]

We all weigh about the same. My buddy that used to be 175-180 is apparently 198 lbs right now.

We'll see how it goes. Stage 4 of my everlasting GS build is Porting, Cams, and big bore. I just checked out that link and I'd need high compression pistons?
I looked straight at http://gszone.biz/enginekits.html and I'm not sure if it's the same Mfg, but their 1230 kit comes with .348 lift cams and its supposedly streetable. I assume that means pump gas?

I would love to do cams, ride it for a year, then big bore, ride for a year, then porting but my builder buddy said that will make the cost 3x as much. Plus tuning it 3x will be a PITA.
I'll probably do it all at once. Just hand him the motor and come back a few weeks later with a large wad of cash.

-Kevin

You can ask RapidRay or BlowBike about how fast a stock 1150 with 0.348 and RS carbs will be. They know. IIRC 10.5s in the 1/4. That is one of the cheapest drag bikes you can do and been done plenty of times before and plenty streetable. Gixxer cams come with that much lift from the factory.

 

[Rob S.]

How'd you get your weight down so low (505)?

 

[CivilRock]

I hope that 505 is accurate.
The exhaust is easily the biggest weight loss.
Rear sets where also pretty heavy.
-Airbox? 2 lbs?
I think the gsxr wheels are a little lighter.

One of these guys has a sweet 500 lb scale and we can get some F/R weight bias and total weights one wheel at a time.

Kevin.

 

[trippivot]

how are you going to judge a winner?

lowest E.T.? or fastest M.P.H.? or most consistent ?


here is how I see the match up


SV loses period. -- FJR is set up for touring probably wont break into the 13's - I don't care what the magazine says

the GS has this one 15-49 (630) or 3.26-1 gearing - and drop in .348's will assure a win on all counts -

 

[CivilRock]

how are you going to judge a winner?

lowest E.T.? or fastest M.P.H.? or most consistent ?

ET - Although if it's a blowout, we might have to come up another metric. Consistency might be a good backup position.


here is how I see the match up

SV loses period. -- FJR is set up for touring probably wont break into the 13's - I don't care what the magazine says

the GS has this one 15-49 (630) or 3.26-1 gearing - and drop in .348's will assure a win on all counts -

Really..? I have the SV picked as the winner. Just on HP/Wt. I never thought of the gearing on the FJR. Probably not ideal. (and you can't change it)
I have a 530 chain with 17-50 right now (2.94:1). I'm barely into 5th when I cross the line, maybe I should go even lower?

When you say: Drop in a .348, what else would you do besides just replace the cam?
Would all of these be mandatory? (suggested, recommended, smart):
Cam chain
Cam chain tensioner
top end oiler
750 pump gears
HD Clutch hub build.

I'd really like to split Cams/Big Bore/Porting into 3 different stages despite all recommendations to do it all at once for cost savings. I know it will cost more, but that way I can split $5,000 into 4-5 little $1100 expenditures. I want to savor this build and enjoy every single step of the way. Chew every bite. If I do it all at once, I'll have nothing to look forward to once it's done.

-Kevin

 

[posplayr]

Drop in means buy slotted gears and Webcams (someone is selling some G-3 for $300 right now which are a close approximation), learn how to degree cams or find someone to do it.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...3-Cams-300-00-or-Might-Consider-Partial-Trade

No other changes to chain, head or anything in the motor. But you will probably have to fatten up the main jet (1-2 steps depending on how fat you already are) and adjust the rest of the jetting from there.

If you knew how to degree your cams then this is a 1 day effort at the very most. Jetting may take a bit more time, but someone with a dyno will get you there very quick.

With a new valve cover gasket, oil change, a few main jets you are into into it for about $500. This will really add to the Hp above 6K RPM.

 

[Rob S.]

I hope that 505 is accurate.
The exhaust is easily the biggest weight loss.
Rear sets where also pretty heavy.
-Airbox? 2 lbs?
I think the gsxr wheels are a little lighter.

One of these guys has a sweet 500 lb scale and we can get some F/R weight bias and total weights one wheel at a time.

Kevin.

I have pods, 4-into-1, no centerstand and I still weigh 560!

 

[CivilRock]

No centerstand either. Maybe my old brain is tricking me and it weighs 550 not 505. I will weigh it soon and report back.

There's an old set of V&H .342 cams on Ebay too. I think that would be a cheap way for me to get my kicks. I'm sure I can learn how to degree cams, and I actually enjoy the jetting process.

Who makes the G3 cams? Where can I read about them?

-Kevin

 

[Guest]

505lbs seams about right to me.

 

[posplayr]

personally if you have the money, get the Web 0.348's

There is supposed to be a big difference between 0.340's and the 0.348s which is alighted right for what you want.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-80-8...CAMS-CAMSHAFTS-70-112-168-GRIND-/131366728640

 

[posplayr]

G3

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...m-Timing-G3-Cams-GS1100&p=2176787#post2176787

 

[trippivot]

twins don't accelerate mid-high like a line 4 - they have low-mid -so 330-1/8th will be good but at the 1/8th to top end = it is going to wheeze out.

g3 is cam motion my opinion towards tuning is not the same as others but that just means there is more than 1 way to get your bike accelerating like a rocket.


gearing is super important ! 17/50 is good but 52 will be closer to what you want for this competition- 16/50 may be way to unruly to launch without wheelie-ing .you have to experiment -chain length may be an issue. regardless...3.1or3.2 you need a wheelie bar but 1 way or another you need to flirt with hitting or holding redline at the stripe either in 4th or 5th gear - you have more than 1 gear choice

all the details you listed for the cam installation was not mandatory. I suggest a manual camchain adjuster no matter what, Drop in means that - bolt them to stock sprockets and set the 1-2-3 20 pin gap just like normal - pull the plugs and turn it over by hand - check intake valve to piston at 10 btdc intake exhaust at 10 atdc -overlap - set your lash - you'll see. just don't get overwhelmed - tune out all the timing rhetoric - more overlap kicks butt -too much is when special attention is necessary -

 

[wymple]

Unless you are all 3 pros at the strip, I'd put my money on the guy who gets in the most practice beforehand. Lots of faster bikes lose to superior riders.

 

[CivilRock]

I went camping this weekend with Mr. FJR and Mr. SV1k, and there was a lot of talk about who was going to come out ahead in this battle.
What we all agreed on is pretty much summed up with what Wymple stated above.

I'd put my money on the guy who gets in the most practice beforehand

We also agreed that once we establish who is fastest, that we're going to switch bikes and then see what happens. I think that will be VERY fun!
As long as they remember that my bike is GP shift.

-Kevin

 

[CivilRock]

I want to see if I can beat these guys without the cams. But they're surely going to get put into my bike at some point.

Done:
1. shift light
2. quickshifter
3. lowered rear end.
4. front tie down strap.
5. Towel Seat mod.
6. 3.25:1 ratio. 16/52

 

[Guest]

I want to see if I can beat these guys without the cams. But they're surely going to get put into my bike at some point.

Done:
1. shift light
2. quickshifter
3. lowered rear end.
4. front tie down strap.
5. Towel Seat mod.
6. 3.25:1 ratio. 16/52
View attachment 44606

thats some stout gearing. Practice out in the sticks and make sure your not running out of gears before the finish line. I like a 17t with the 52.
Your combination is begging for some cams