1982 GS450 - No Spark

[peteGSX]

Well alas, 15 years after getting my 450 back on the road and over 100,000kms later, it seems the 44 year old ignitor is likely deceased. Amazingly enough I found my old rebuild thread on here! Pics are all gone but the content is still there...

Anyway, I'm 95% certain the issue is the ignitor. A few times it has started fine like normal (I ride it to work every day plus some weekends), but then stops and won't start again. Cranking is as good as normal, but I was never in a position to check if it had spark or not. Typically I could smell fuel so thought I had simply flooded it, and usually waiting for a couple of minutes and cranking again got it running.

However on Tuesday this week it stalled at a set of lights and did the same thing, cranking but no fire. Fortunately the light was red and traffic was very quiet so I got it out of the way. RACQ (our local roadside assistance) came to the rescue, cleaned up the plugs, but initially no spark and then it decided to spark and fire up. Rode back to work and it got me home fine again.

Yesterday, however, it would fire for a couple of seconds and then stop, and after a couple of times doing that, no fire at all. Given it did that in the driveway leaving home I was able to check and definitely no spark.

I haven't had time to do a proper, thorough step by step diagnosis yet but this is what I know:

- Ignitor has battery voltage going to it and ground seems good.
- The signal generator pickups both register ~68ohms each which is in spec (60 - 80).
- Both ignition coils measure 4.8ohms (in spec).
- I put brand new spark plugs in Tuesday afternoon after the issues I had.

First question: Does anyone have a definitive method to diagnose the ignitor itself other than proving everything else around it is good? These are now unobtanium so I'd like to be certain it's the culprit before laying out cash for an alternative.

As to alternatives if it is indeed dead, I'm reluctant to go back to the Dynatek modules as the two I've had on previously both failed. I do know the 2000 and earlier GS500 ignition setups are a bolt on but I'm having trouble finding any locally, and I'll need to source the whole thing (ECU, signal generator, rotor, possibly coils).

I looked at the TCIP one from Belgium but can't ascertain if it suits a GS450 or not (can't see it in their list).

If anyone has any insights on the above please let me know!

 

[gtem]

I'm dealing with what I suspect is a half-dead igniter (lost signal to a coil) on my '81 850G so I'm following this with interest. I've got a second half-failed igniter on the bench that bwringer gave me to tinker with as well. I'm going to attempt to source a replacement transistor, I found the right *looking* transistor online. Have just been too busy to mess with it quite yet.

 

[Nessism]

Hi Pete! Glad to see you back here...

For the most part, the Chinisium Dyna knock-off kits have a decent reputation. Dirt cheap on eBay (here in the states, anyway). I'd go that way. Worth a try anyway.

 

[peteGSX]

I'm dealing with what I suspect is a half-dead igniter (lost signal to a coil) on my '81 850G so I'm following this with interest. I've got a second half-failed igniter on the bench that bwringer gave me to tinker with as well. I'm going to attempt to source a replacement transistor, I found the right *looking* transistor online. Have just been too busy to mess with it quite yet.

Unfortunately the 450 ignitor is potted, so not so easy to repair! I attempted to get into the original when it failed during the rebuild but it ended up destroyed. Most likely it was bad technique on my part. Hopefully you'll get something useful out of this all the same.

Hi Pete! Glad to see you back here...

For the most part, the Chinisium Dyna knock-off kits have a decent reputation. Dirt cheap on eBay (here in the states, anyway). I'd go that way. Worth a try anyway.

Glad to see you're still here! I saw posts elsewhere mentioning those and I may even have the old half failed Dynateks floating around somewhere too. I will have to check them out.

So far I did find a dismantler interstate who has two ignitors salvaged from working bikes and the price isn't unreasonable (~$AU240). My concern of course is I know these aren't the most reliable at this age and my 450 is still my daily rider, so I'm not sure if I should just try another old one or not.

My plan this weekend is to 100% ascertain if it really is the ignitor, or if it's something else, then I can make a decision.

 

[peteGSX]

Well in a pleasant surprise this morning I discovered I had not thrown out the old Dyna S modules! I have two, both of which I believe have one failed module each. This means I have the correct plate for the 450 along with an incorrect one (I didn't need the full DS3-3C kit second time around) plus two rotors and the much required spacer for the rotor to work with the 450 mechanical advance.

For some reason I have one module's wires cut, but I don't remember why. So assuming I validate the ignitor is the current failure, I might even be able to get a working Dyna S setup using the good modules with some simple wiring changes.

Anyone know if there's any reason not to use two left or two right Dyna S modules at all?

 

[Nessism]

As long as you can get the module to mount up right, it should work fine. The price is right, too!

 

[peteGSX]

Yep I like the price for sure! I can't find any of the China knock off ones on eBay or anything here, but the guy I buy my Cometic stuff off for the Kat sells them and has the Honda versions for $AU130 which is pretty good, so worst case I can get one of those and mount it to the Dyna plate I guess.

First things first is make sure the ignitor is the culprit, then test the Dyna modules to make sure I have two good ones. I know what I'm doing this weekend!

 

[peteGSX]

Well no luck I'm afraid!

On the plus side, I know my ignitor is now dead. Both coils are fine, signal generator is fine, ignitor is getting 12V and is grounded, so the only possible situation is that it has failed. I don't know any way to test the ignitor itself, and given these are potted, there's no easy way to inspect the internals (I destroyed my original when it failed trying to get it out of the potting compound).

I tried the two Dyna setups I have, but only one out of four modules works, so no zero dollar fix there unfortunately either.

There's an eBay seller interstate with two original ignitors for sale at just over $AU240 each which would be a plug 'n play solution, but not sure if I should fork out that much cash for another 40+ year old ignitor that who knows how long it will last.

I can get another genuine Dyna S setup for $AU365 and swap it to the GS450 plate again.

I can get a Dyna "Style" (assume these are the same as others mentioned on here) for $AU130, but not sure if that would be as easy as swapping the modules to the Dyna plate for the 450 or not. The ones I can get are for a Honda CV 350/400 or Honda CB 750. They have a GSX1100 one available as well, but it includes coils which I don't need and puts it at the same price as the genuine Dyna S option.

CB 350/400 setup.
CB 750 setup.

 

[peteGSX]

Actually I have found a bunch of the Chinese ones on AliExpress now, starting at less than $AU40!

Would just like to know if I can swap the modules over to the GS450 Dyna plate though, because that way I know everything's aligned correctly to start with the timing close. I've read a few posts on here that indicate the holes on the Chinese plates may not be all that accurate, and there are none for the 450 meaning I'd need to modify them anyway.

 

[peteGSX]

The online store I get all my Cometic gaskets from confirmed the "Dyna Style" Chinese modules will swap straight over to the genuine Dyna S plate I have for the 450, so I've ordered one of those. Just gotta wait for it to be posted then hopefully I'll be back up and running again!

 

[peteGSX]

Well as my run of luck seems to go at the moment, I got the new Dyna Style ignition yesterday, swapped them over to the Dynatek plate, and no spark from the left module. Checked with a multimeter and it gets a dead short to ground. The right module works just fine and dandy. I'll give him a call later this morning and see if I can get it sorted before the weekend because I really wanted it back on the road next week!

 

[peteGSX]

I was able to get the replacement for the Dyna Style ignition in time for last weekend, so it's in now and I've been commuting on it every day this week again. Yay!

I did have an issue with timing where it seemed I needed to fully retard the plate and modules when following the Dyna static timing instructions. With the original Dynatek modules I had the plate reasonably advanced.

I tried timing with a timing light but in the very limited time I had available to do that I couldn't really get a good line of sight to the timing mark as it's really hard to see on the 450, so I've left the ignition retarded where it was set with the static timing. I have troubles kneeling down and getting the right angle to see it properly (my right knee is a bit buggered these days) so I do need to find a way to check that properly. The bike is running well but gut feeling is it's a little sluggish in the lower revs compared to how it was, so I think advancing the timing is needed, but I'd rather do it properly. I see a bike stand in my future when budget allows...