1984 GS550ES / can't figure out electical issue

[Neebs]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum, and to bike ownership. I recently got an '84 GS550ES that needs some work. I feel like I am chasing ghosts with the electrical issues that it's having, so I'll try to list what I have checked so far, and hopefully someone can tell me if I'm missing something.

-Got new battery bike

-When key turned to On position, all lights (including gauge lights) will turnon, but only if the kick stand is down

-On the gauge cluster, the oil light & kick stand light are both lit up red.

-Once kickstand is up, all lights go off (even the gauge lights)

-Pressing the start button, the engine will not crank, with or without the kickstand up

-I grabbed a multimeter and checked all fuses, they are fine.

-I checked the starter, and that was good too

-I replaced the kickstand switch, the one on there was toast, but it changed nothing

-At some point, my ignition switch got to the point where no lights come on (even gauge clusterlights) when I turn it to the on position

-I used the multimeter to check the ignition switch, and it is perfectly fine.



So I’m a little stumped at this point. I suck at electrical work, so if anyone has any advice on what I should check next, I’d appreciate it.

 

[Redman]

Welcome to GSR.
Good that you have a multimeter.

What you say about the dash lights going out based on the kickstand .... that is strange. CAn chat about that some.

But first, about the starter not cranking: Do you know that (the stock wiring anyway) have to hold the clutch lever in....?
THere is a swtich on the clutch lever that is in series with the starter button so that the clutch lever has to be pulled in for the starter button to operate the starter solenoid to run the starter motor. This is true regardless of if in gear or not, and also true if sidestand down or not.

Now for the sidestand. THe switch on the sidestand should operate (close, make contact) when the sidestand it not all the way up, and is open (not make contact) when the sidestand is all the way up. When it is not all the way up it closes to ground out the wire that goes to it and this should then light up the sidestand light, and that is all it should effect.
So if you want to eliminate the sidestand switch (not that I am recommending such) from having any effect on anything for a test; you would disconnect the wire to it (not short it out).

On these 80s GS the sidestand switch only lights a indicator light, has not interlock on the starter nor the ignition.

When you say the dash-instrument lights go out when put up the sidestand, I would check to see if that is really the dash-instument lights on both the tach and the speedo.

Other confusiong point, that is related, is that the oil pressure swtich, when low oil pressure (like engine off) shorts the wire to ground and that lights up the oil pressure light AND the sidestand light even if the sidestand is up. If you asks how is that possible without the sidestand also ligting the oil pressure light, well that is difficult to fully explain (and is beyond the subject of this thread) but that involves the diode in the circuit.

Oh, wait: tell us if the instruments and the dash are stock.
Maybe some pictures would be good.

.

 

[posplayr]

The kicks stand correlation suggests that you have basic problem with grounding. If I recall correctly some of these smaller bikes have a very circuitous grounding scheme.

I would suggest getting a spray can of DeOxit and some naval jelly and start cleaning all the grounds between the R/R and the battery (-). Cleaning the fuse box will not hurt as well. UUntill you do this you will likely be chasing your tail.
Once this is done, do the Quick Test to see if you are charging. If you are losing grounds you will not be charging.

basically, there is no silver bullet to this approach, you need to go back to fundamentals nad make sure you have a good base.

See GS charging health for recommendations on basic connection including the ground strap and SPG.

https://www.thegsresources.com/_for...g-Electrical-Connenctions&highlight=corrosion

 

[Steve]

Yep, sounds like more than one problem, but there is a possible solution to the no-start situation. :-k
Did you pull the clutch lever? There is a "safety" interlock that requires you to pull the clutch to be able to use the electric starter.
Many of us have disabled that feature, but be aware that it's there.

.

 

[Cipher]

well gauge lights should be on regardless of the position of the side stand indicator light switch. Thats all it is it is not an ignition cutrt out unless some enterprising owner rewired it.

 

[Neebs]

Thanks for the quick responses everyone! Here is an image of the gauge cluster. I also forgot to mention that it won't show which gear I'm in, and the neutral light will not come on when I'm in neutral. Aside from that, I have been holding in the clutch while trying to start it, but I haven't taken the lever apart to look for a switch yet. I suppose I could test that soon. But from what you guys are saying, it's looking like I may have a ground issue. Now I will just have to figure out where all of them are.

 

[Cipher]

theres a oem service manual with wiring diagram in basscliffs website
http://gsarchive.bwringer.com/

the gear position indicator lights along with neutral wont stop the bike from starting

 

[Cipher]

check the battery ground first its behind the engine case more to the right than left facing forward

 

[Neebs]

So I have been away from my bike for a few months, had car issues to worry about over winter/spring. But I have finally got back to it and had a few spare minutes to get in the garage last night, so I wanted to check the kickstand switch and the clutch switch on the bike. I watched a video about checking continuity for the kickstand switch, and it said the ohms should stay at 1 with the kickstand down, and go to 0.00 with the kickstand up. For my bike, with the kickstand down the meter was reading 0.02 ohms, and with the kickstand up, it stayed at 1. So I think something is wrong with that sensor because the readings are the reverse of what I should have gotten. That may explain why all the lights on the bike go off when the kickstand is up.The sensor was new, so I’m wondering if they wired incorrectly when they made it? As for the clutch switch, I removed the cover where the switch should be,and there was no wire there at all, and I can’t find any wire that reaches that far, so I’m wondering if the previous owner deleted the switch somehow. Does anyone know of a drawn diagram of the wiring for this bike? I don’t mean theboxy wiring schematic, I always had trouble reading those. I mean like a drawn picture of where each wire is and where it is placed on the bike. I will start checking and cleaning the negative grounds next.

 

[Cipher]

Read the manual in the link I posted. There is no sensor its only a switch. Did you check and clean your grounds?

 

[Neebs]

Read the manual in the link I posted. There is no sensor its only a switch. Did you check and clean your grounds?

For some reason, that link doesn't work. It says the site is under maintenance, or is having a programming error. I will be checking the grounds this weekend.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

this link works
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

 

[cowboyup3371]

Also, if you are using IE11, you'll need to add his site to your compatibility view settings

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Also, if you are using IE11, you'll need to add his site to your compatibility view settings

Do people actually still use Internet Explorer?! How's the leg, Cowboy(Scott)?

 

[Steve]

Do people actually still use Internet Explorer?!

Believe it or not, there are a few things that I do where Internet Exploder works a bit better.

Chrome is my go-to, but I still have IE set as my default, so any links open in IE.

I watched a video about checking continuity for the kickstand switch, and it said the ohms should stay at 1 with the kickstand down, and go to 0.00 with the kickstand up. For my bike, with the kickstand down the meter was reading 0.02 ohms, and with the kickstand up, it stayed at 1. So I think something is wrong with that sensor because the readings are the reverse of what I should have gotten. That may explain why all the lights on the bike go off when the kickstand is up. The sensor was new, so I’m wondering if they wired incorrectly when they made it?

You will have to read your meter carefully when following "video advice". :-k
The "1" that you reference would be an out-of-range indicator, so it should read as " - 1 -" or " OL ". The dashes before and after the 1 are critical, as it can be mistaken for a 1Ω resistance. Actually, that should read as 1.00, not just 1, but not everybody notices that.

Also, be aware that the switches (sensors) for the kickstand light come in two varieties. One is closed when the stand is UP, the other is closed when the stand is DOWN. I discovered this when trying to get a replacement for my wife's bike several years ago. The switches look identical on the outside, but operate completely opposite.

I don't know about the circuitry on your 550, but my wife's 850 uses the side stand switch to turn a light ON. Nothing else, just a light. If your bike is wired to interrupt the ignition when the stand is down, it might be wired to show continuity (zero ohms) when the stand is UP.

.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Do people actually still use Internet Explorer?! How's the leg, Cowboy(Scott)?

I have moved to Firefox for home use but still use IE11 at work for most things (Chrome for our trouble ticketing system and a firewall management console).

Although I had a bit of a scare yesterday morning I'm doing okay; I will find out more about the bones and my future weight bearing on Friday. Saw my chiropractor last night and it's seemed to have helped straighten some of me back up

 

[Neebs]

So I checked the resistance and the negative ground on the block and it was 156+ ohms. I cleaned it thoroughly, put it back together, checked it again, and it came back with 0.05ohms. Unfortunately, it didn?t change anything. After that I checked the wires going to the starter relay. Whenever I pressed that handlebar start button, the wires to the relay read 140 ohms. The relay itself tested fine. So does that mean there is an issue with the handlebar start switch, or something else along that line of wires?

 

[Cipher]

I am going to look at the wiring diagram but it seems clear that a previous owner thre it back together without plugging wires into the correct connectors. The Kickstand when in its on position( which should be down so as to illuminate the sidestand indicator light ) should not in anyway impact the gauge lights. The oi light should certainly be on as that perfectly normal on a non runing engine.

 

[Gorminrider]

For my bike, with the kickstand down the meter was reading 0.02 ohms, and with the kickstand up, it stayed at 1

Short help: This is correct. The switch tests ok .

Long help: The manual I'm looking at for the 550ES has the sidestand light working as:
"positive" + current comes through your dashlight, and then through the sidestand switch to a Black/white stripe wire ("B/W").....Black'White stripe wires are ALL attached to ground (and thereafter to the negative post of the battery "-").

Therefore, when sidestand is down, the switch is closed and the light comes on because the power at the dashlight bulb now has a path to "ground" through that switch.



About ohms on your meter...set the knob to the lowest range of ohms
..keep the prods apart...whatever the face shows -that is "infinite" resistance. Various meters show various numbers. Some do show OL some do not.
..touch the prods together Your meter will read: SOMETHING LIKE: 0.8 or 1.2 or even 2.4 ...You and I know this is a short circuit of the meter but it doesn't read "0"....

Why not?

It's a cheapy, that's why, but still useful...

Hereafter, as far as you are concerned the number shown as ohms with probes crossed is "0 ohms and perfect continuity" and with any number above ,you subtract this "cross-probe" number to arrive at a number that represents what the resistance actually is for the doodad you are testing.. It's Calibration.

The wiring diagram is what you will have to use. From your first post, it sounds like the wiring is screwed up. USE THE COLOURS in the diagram. This is always your best clue. The harness itself is wrapped with tape so it's not like you have any other way...be especially aware of "B/W". Black with white stripe. It is the path to ground..and ground is the connection to the battery's negative (-) terminal. Especially watch out, clean and be aware of any B/W with "rings" on them. These are the "ground harness's attachments to "ground". Without them clean and attached, a lot of stuff won't work.

 

[Cipher]

When you chase the wires from the sidestand where do they terminate? Also there is a B\W wire that connects to the negative terminal of the battery can you post a pic of some of your wiring.?