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1985 GS550ES Igniter dead, advice needed please!

  • Thread starter Thread starter victorgallas
  • Start date Start date
V

victorgallas

Guest
Hi,

I have a 1985 GS550ES. I was checking the spark today and I decided to use a coil from a Yamanha YZF. Before using it, I checked the primary and secondary resistance and they were slightly off from the original suzuki ones. It began working fine while I was checking for sparks and then suddenly it stopped firing. I tried plugging the stock coils back and also did not get any spark. So now I think my igniter box is dead. I have checked fuses and wires, all is ok.

Could anyone help me locate one? I have tried ebay and google. I have been restoring this bike for 2 years now and I am almost done..
If locating an igniter seems impossible, could I use a dyna s ds3-2 system instead? I understand that I can wire this system directly to the coils, my only question then is how does the ignition gets advanced since there is now igniter box anymore?

Please any input is welcome. I have been restoring this bike its been 2 years. I had every single metal part sand blasted and powder coated, including the frame. Shes looking awesome, but now I need to figure out these electrical issues.
 
Thanks for the replies.
I did do a search before posting on this and I did see the one that adapted a 750 unit by modifying the pick up mount. I dont want to do it that way as I just felt it was too rigged, No offense to anyone please. I just been trying to restore the bike back to its factory specs so I am just trying to keep it as original as possible and clean as well.

I have looked into the Dyna 2000 and I called the guys at Z1 and while speaking to me he told me that they dont have a particular kit that would work with the mid 80's gs since the pickup plate is too large for the engines housing, since the kits they offers are to be used on engines that had the mechanical systems.

However while speaking to him I determined that I could still use the Dyna system on the Gs550 if I made some modifications to the pickup mounting plate and maybe the rotor itself.

Has anyone done this before? Anyone has a mid 1980's GS550 with a dyna 2000 system on it?
I have access to a machine shop and water jetting, thus I am thinking of buying the kit and designing my own plate and cutting it on the water jet.

Any inputs?

Thanks guys

PS: In the meantime I decided to tear the old igniter unit apart and doing some research I have been able to determine what are the transistors used on the unit. Gonna try replacing them and see if I can revive the unit....
 
I dont want to do it that way as I just felt it was too rigged,
Click to expand...

Well I'm not offended but I would like an explanation. Just exactly what do you mean "too rigged"? Are you implying its in anyway faked?

My solution is the nearest thing you will get to a stock setup. They are, afterall, stock Suzuki parts. Once the signal generator cover is back in place, no one would ever be any the wiser.

The other solutions are, of course after market and thus not stock. The dyna "S" in particular requires substantial modifications including retrofitting of a mechanical advancer. Once that is in place the side cover cannot be refitted without a custom made spacer as the rotor and pickup plate extend out too far.

If you want a running bike with a relatively inexpensive solution I'd say mine is the choice to make. Mind you, if you really must have stock you can still pay Suzuki about $690 for a brand spanking new one. Good luck on the used market by the way as we've all searched it.

Best of luck getting it finished off and post some pics please.

Spyug
 
Hey Spyug,

By no means take offense to what I said please! I do applaud you for being able to figure that one out, I know it takes a lot of trial and error like you had to do until you got it working, so congrats on that. What i meant by rigged was just that I saw that you had to hold down the pickup plate by using some washers and had to cut down some parts of the plate to make it work. I was just a little nervous about the plate vibrating loose and messing things up. But I do applaud you for getting it working.

Jason, The Dyna 2000 DDK3-2 kit should require some modification on the pickup plate and rotor according to Jeff from Z1 enterprises. I will try to get a hold of Dyna directly see what they say.

I do have some good news, I was able to repair my igniter unit!
It turns out that the main transistors on the unit are also used on yamaha units. So I did some search and found some people that have replaced the transistors themselves. I did that today and I got it working again.
I used a transistor from radio shack, so not the best option, since what they had there was not sized to what I needed so it gets really hot, but I am ordering the correct one from mouser.com

Either way, here are the specs of the stock transistor used:
http://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/62990/HITACHI/2SD1113K/247/1/2SD1113K.html

Following the specs outlined on the spec sheet you can purchase the transistors online on sites like Mouser.com or Newark.com

I did noticed that my spark that I get is not really "meaty", but its the same to what i was getting before, what do you guys recommend for coils replacement?

Thanks a lot guys

PS: In case the transistor mentioned is hard to find, you can look up three other options: TIP150, TIP151, TIP152
 
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yeah I ended up buying a set of dyna coils with suppression wires from Z1.
I got the 5 ohms one since it is the direct replacement according to Z1 and I decided to go with the suppression wires, so that if I do decide to upgrade to a dyna 2000 later I will be able to still use the coils according to what Z1 had on their site.

But yeah I am really glad I figured out the transistors in the unit.
If any of you would like more info on what I did feel free to ask. I think some people may be able to save their transistor units.
 
If any of you would like more info on what I did feel free to ask. I think some people may be able to save their transistor units.
Click to expand...

It would be very helpful if you would do a write up on exactly what transisters you used and what you did to sort it. There have been many folks struggling with this problem recently and it might save a lot of frustration for many and get a few more bikes back on the road.

You may have noticed we are all about trying to help each other out so it would be greatly appreciated. Posting pics also might be helpful if you are able.

cheers,
Spyug
 
hey, I will definitely post pics.
I ordered the correct transistors today and so I will post pics once i get back working on it.
I have a test coming up, so ill be away from working on the bike for a few :(

Hope this can help other people down the road of course :)
 
I went ahead and ordered enough transistors to fix two units.

I wanted to ask if anyone here would happen to have an unit that does NOT work that they would let me have?
What I want to do is reverse engineer the circuit, figure out what components go on the board so that anyone can then attempt to fix their unit by replacing the components on their boards.

If anyone has an old not working unit, please PM. I will pay shipping.
I am looking for units that go on GS550 to begin with, then once I reverse engineer that one I will attempt other ones.

Of course if I can reverse engineer the unit you provide and I can fix it, I will gladly send it back to you.
 
I will gladly send you mine just as soon as our Post Office strike ends and i'll pay the shipping. At the moment nothing is coming in or going out. If you PM me your info I'll box it up and get it ready to go. The strike has been on for a couple of weeks now and we're hoping it won't be too much longer.

Thanks for working on this. as I mentioned there are lots of folks stuck with dead igniters right now and it would be dandy to get a bunch more sorted out.

Cheers,
Spyug
 
victorgallas said:
hey, I will definitely post pics.
I ordered the correct transistors today and so I will post pics once i get back working on it.
I have a test coming up, so ill be away from working on the bike for a few :(

Hope this can help other people down the road of course :)
Click to expand...

Looking forward to this. My igniter crapped out as well.
 
When your finished why not mount the transistors on the outside and use the case as a heat-sink or make your own heatsink.

That way anyone can change them again and easily troubleshoot them by being able to probe directly on the transistor.

Possibly ad a fuse for each to avoid blowing them again.


One question: How did you take the ignitor apart without damaging anything and getting it clean enough to work with?
 
So I just wanted to revive this a little bit.
I have been away from doing too much work on the bike itself but she is getting ready to go for rides soon!

As for as the transistor unit goes. I will be posting a write up with pictures once I dig into the unit that Spyug is sending me to take apart. I fixed my unit, but I did it late at night to get the bike to work and so I didnt take any pics. sorry

But here are some points about it in the meantime that anyone can look up.
When taking the unit apart, the epoxy material used can be broken apart carfully by using small picks and such. I have heard that using acetone sometimes breaks down the epoxy, its a matter of trying out different options. If trying to just chip away the old epoxy, just do it slowly and carefully but its possible to break it apart.


The parts I replaced on mine to revived are the two main transistors at the final stage or the unit, they are located under a black bar that works as a heat sink. I used transistors from radio shack that didnt have the correct values I found online that other people suggested, however initially the transistors would get really hot, now they are getting to a normal temperature and seem to be holding up really good. The bike is running great, I put a set of dyna coils and so far the transistors have been alright.

The links I would suggest people to look are these.
And like I said, i will be posting a work procedure on this, will be in a week or more. I first have to get the transistor unit in the mail from Spyug.


http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFaq.pdf
 
Excellent job! When you get the one from Spyug, please post some pictures of where to open it up and get to the transistors.

I have used 2SD799 transistors as replacements in other ignitors and the GS1000, they also work well. Which did you use?

Thanks for the feedback.

Edit: Sorry forgot you used 2SD1113's. The 2SD799's are available on ebay as well.
 
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Hey

I used a transistor from Radio shack, dont have in front of me to tell you the number. But i also read on some forums to use darlington type transistors TIP150. I tried them but they where not working properly when trying to crank and check for spark. So I realized that the TIP150 specs where essentially too high for the application, so I went back to the radio shack ones. Now its been been working great and they havent even been getting soo hot.

But as far as I learned, any NPN Dralington Type transistor with a TO-220 packaging type should work, you may have to play with different specs to make it work with the coils that the bike has. If you have stock coils that are supposed to be about 4.5K primary resistance, you would want a transistor that is close to the 2SD113 transistor. But if you have coils with lower primary resistance you may need transistors with a much higher power capacity.

Of course this has been a learning curve for me as well so I will be keeping updates.
When I get the unit from Spyug, my goal is to complete take a part the unit to list all of the components used so that anyone can just buy these components and rebuild their units.



Matchless said:
Excellent job! When you get the one from Spyug, please post some pictures of where to open it up and get to the transistors.

I have used 2SD799 transistors as replacements in other ignitors and the GS1000, they also work well. Which did you use?

Thanks for the feedback.

Edit: Sorry forgot you used 2SD1113's. The 2SD799's are available on ebay as well.
Click to expand...
 
victorgallas said:
When I get the unit from Spyug, my goal is to complete take a part the unit to list all of the components used so that anyone can just buy these components and rebuild their units.
Click to expand...

That will be very interesting to see the full schematic and parts used. Please keep us informed of your progress on this.
Thanks
 
Jason the terminator said:
The link for the instructions lists yours as one of the models that it will fit. Take a look kit DDK3-2. Dynatek's # is 626-963-1669 I would call them and ask them.

http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/instruct/DDK1-5_2-1_3-2.pdf
Click to expand...


So this really fits my 550 without sognifigant mods.
The pdf says so but none of the main web page links indicate that.

I suppose I could make the call. Its cheaper than a new oem unit and me learning to solder my old ignitor is iffy at best.
 
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