4 not firing, even with #1 wire attached

[Call Me Ahab]

New plugs here also. I checked that first hoping it was the answer. All of my plugs have about two miles on them.

Hey there, I was just curious as to progress - haven't seen anything new for a few days - if the problem is fixed, please let us know what the issue was and how you fixed it! If not, well, I'm sorry. And I'm right there with ya.

Hope all is well, good luck with your continued efforts.

 

[knitt31]

My carb o-ring kit came in the mail today. I had time to pull the carbs off, and realized the intake boot rings were in real tough shape. Anyways, I'm doing a full teardown and soaking of EVERYTHING the proper way. Hoping the answer lies in my carbs. Though- it may be a long process, as grad school is killing me. Been putting in 16 hour days at school regularly the past few weeks :O

 

[srg]

My carb o-ring kit came in the mail today. I had time to pull the carbs off, and realized the intake boot rings were in real tough shape. Anyways, I'm doing a full teardown and soaking of EVERYTHING the proper way. Hoping the answer lies in my carbs. Though- it may be a long process, as grad school is killing me. Been putting in 16 hour days at school regularly the past few weeks :O

It took me quite a while to clean my carbs. After I took them apart, I noticed a couple small problems that I had to get fixed. A float pin post was broken, a fuel-mix adjustment screw was stripped...just little things. It probably took me over a month to get them in perfect shape again with the floats all adjusted.

My advice: Be very organized. Don't rely on memory. Label things. And don't rush it!

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Hey guys, just touchin base here.

My new shims came in today, they will bring all my valves back within tolerance. I'll let you know sometime tonight if this fixes my problem.

Good luck to all of us, this is a weird one :-k

 

[Steve]

I figured that meant I had a temporary blockage in the carb, so i pulled them off and tore them apart.
When I say apart, I mean I pulled the jets, soaked the bowls/ jets, checked the holes with a needle etc. I never actually pulled the carbs APART and off of the rail. I didn't want to have to retune them.
No such luck there.

How much do you enjoy doing half-way jobs? :-k

Until you take them apart and do it RIGHT, you are going to keep having problems.

.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Puzzled. Verrry puzzled. New valve shims in brought me to .1 clearance on all but 1 valve, and that one's .05.

First time firing it up w/ new intake boots and OH MAH GEE the difference was phenomenal, retuning was so much easier... What once took me about 2 hours took 20 minutes today! Must've been leaking like hell up till now! Reset idle and synced, all seemed well...

However, #2 WAS firing for a little while, the pipe was HOT... now, nada. The bike runs very well, throttle response is spot on, no hang or slow return to idle, no dip below idle speed (if there is it is minute). But, so far as I can tell #2 does not fire consistently. Carbs are indeed still clean, no blockages, no leaking bowls, stuck floats, nada.

Brand new intake boots and o-rings, I double checked the airbox boots, perfect condition. New throttle cable (just cuz it needed one). Battery is just fine (as old as it is, and after the research I've done on it, I am amazed). Charging system seems healthy. Strong spark to all plugs. I'll fire it up again tomorrow morning.. but no fire in 2, at least not consistently.

 

[knitt31]

How much do you enjoy doing half-way jobs? :-k

Until you take them apart and do it RIGHT, you are going to keep having problems.

.

Agreed, doing them right this time around. They are already fully disassembled. Just waiting till I have time to dip/reassemble before I move forward.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Knitt, if you're taking them apart again take the time to double check your float levels - this is something I realized I neglected on the 850. 1000 is set right, but that doesn't help me with this

I did go back this evening and check my float levels. While I was at it I blew out the entire carb body w/ compressed air. No obstruction, levels were fine. Back to beating my head on the wall. Tomorrow I'll try interpretive dance, maybe if I can express my agitation in a way that the bike or sympathetic spirits can understand I will make some headway.

 

[Steve]

While I was at it I blew out the entire carb body w/ compressed air. No obstruction, levels were fine.

Blowing air or even spraying carb cleaner through the passages might tell you that the passage is not TOTALLY blocked, but you really have no assurance that it is open as far as it should be.

Can't tell you how many times that others on the form and I have tried (and tried and tried) to explain that the proper way is to do an overnight soak to dissolve most of the crud (which will also soften up the really stubborn deposits), then flush them out with some carb spray, followed by a blast of air. Unless/until you soften and dissolve all that you can, you will just be chasing your tail.

.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

Blowing air or even spraying carb cleaner through the passages might tell you that the passage is not TOTALLY blocked, but you really have no assurance that it is open as far as it should be.

Can't tell you how many times that others on the form and I have tried (and tried and tried) to explain that the proper way is to do an overnight soak to dissolve most of the crud (which will also soften up the really stubborn deposits), then flush them out with some carb spray, followed by a blast of air. Unless/until you soften and dissolve all that you can, you will just be chasing your tail.

.

Indeed - I soaked them when I rebuilt them, and I did go through every single passage quite thoroughly... Whatever I did last night seems to have fixed it, I just burnt the **** out of myself feelin #2 pipe!

Drained all the fuel, blew out all the lines, checked all the float levels (they're all okay) and double checked all my coil connections. Replaced 3 with new spades.

Now when I rev the engine from idle it bogs down like its over-rich >_<
I know what I'll be doing tonight... again... Setting my idle mix is getting old.

 

[knitt31]

At least you got 2 to fire! Great!
So my carbs are entirely apart. I have heard in some places to only soak them three hours,
but I can actually soak them overnight?
Bodies, jets, everything?

 

[Call Me Ahab]

At least you got 2 to fire! Great!
So my carbs are entirely apart. I have heard in some places to only soak them three hours,
but I can actually soak them overnight?
Bodies, jets, everything?

Sure - but NO RUBBER PARTS! any orings or seals will dissolve or warp beyond repair. Be careful about that.

Check your float valve(needle, theres a small piece of mesh that acts as a filter, mine was plugged), that's where the trash seemed to accumulate. It migrated from 2 to 1 earlier, and I nearly lost it.

I eventually tracked down the problem - my aux. fuel tank. There's no in line filter, and that gas is unfiltered - I emptied it out into a white container and sure enough, loaded with trash. Filtered it, blew out the carbs again, and pulled it apart and blew out the #1 carb thoroughly, runs like a champ. Now to fine tune the idle mix... After running about 5m at 6krpm in 4th gear, it gets noticeably weaker. When I return to idle at a full stop the engine stalls. WIll work on this more after class tonight - time to go stare at equations that mean nothing to me!

 

[chuck hahn]

24 hrs is the advice around here. We have all been back inside them for the full 24 hr "redo" after finding it was just a cruel joke and waste of time to do them for a few hrs..do as you wish though and youll soon be a member of the "I should have listened" club.

 

[Steve]

I have heard in some places to only soak them three hours,
but I can actually soak them overnight?
Bodies, jets, everything?

Soak the body, the float bowl, main jet, pilot air jet, pilot fuel jet, float needle, float needle seat (after removing the filter screen) and needle jet (also known as 'emulsion tube').

Do NOT soak the "choke" plungers, vacuum slides or any other parts that have rubber bits attached.

If you read the instructions on the can, you will see that they suggest soaking the parts for "15 to 30 minutes". I believe that those directions were probably written about 30 years ago, when there were strong-enough chemicals in the can to actually do the work in that amount of time. Now, we generally recommend "15 to 30 HOURS" in the dip.

What works well is to dip them when you will have the same block of time available for several days in a row.
On the first day, remove the carbs from the bike, separate the rack, strip one of the carbs, get it in the dip, along with all its brass pieces and float bowl.
24 hours after you started, the first carb will have been in the dip for 23 hours or so. Take it out, rinse it with the HOTTEST water that you can generate. Shoot a quick shot of carb spray through all the passages, but be sure to wear your safety glasses, some of those passages will empty out in strange places, and will shoot right back at you.

Follow that with a quick blast of compressed air, set those carb parts aside.

Now you can get the second carb and its parts ready for the dip. You should already have it apart, so it should only involve dropping the parts in the basket and getting them wet.

24 hours later, repeat the process.

Repeat until all of them are done, then re-assemble with new o-rings from cycleorings.com, make your careful float measurements (22.4 +/-1.0mm) from the lower part of the step, NOT the top, set the mixture screw three full turns out from lightly-seated. Re-gang the rack and do a bench sync. Install the rack on the bike, warm the engine, do a vacuum sync, then fine-tune the mixture screws. Enjoy the ride.

By the way, have you done a valve clearance check? :-k

Valve clearance should be done before a vacuum sync of the carbs. If you check the clearances and change any of them, you will have to re-sync the carbs.

.

 

[Call Me Ahab]

All right folks, my problem is finally resolved. For ever? I sure as hell hope so!

The trash kept re-entering my carbs from the aux fuel cell. Solution: Install in-line fuel filter.

So far so good, I've just finished re-re-RE-setting the idle mixture, and for once it sounds clean and strong. Every single cyl firing at full strength, engine even sounds healthier. Almost purrs, if it weren't for that weird whirring that never seems to go away... Hmph. In any case, throttle response is back, full power again, idle is great - I even went as low as I could just to see how low it would go before dying, it was somewhere around 3~500 before it shut off.

So, lesson hard learned - fuel filters. Always.

Clean your carbs and don't skip steps, be careful on your reassembly and just for kicks, put a fuel filter on that line. Maybe this will help, I was out of options when that fuel thing hit me... I cannot believe I overlooked that - as I said earlier, it was probably something really stupid. And it was - me!