4 to 1 Exhaust... what's the truth?

[doctorgonzo]

Very true, but you have to remember that most GS owners are not interested in an exhaust system that doubles the value of their bike.

I wish V&H would build a street version of their drag pipes, with the collector underneath the engine instead of beside it. Keep the same short, equal length primary tubes and the true megaphone tailpipe (with a reverse cone to remove the torque drop in the midrange) and a small muffler section after the meg. I would pay new prices for that in a second. But they don't seem to be interested... Guess I will have to make my own, then.

Mark

Indeed, guess we should count ourselves lucky that there are any 4 into 1 pipes avalable at all for 30 year old bikes.

 

[mortation]

Very true, but you have to remember that most GS owners are not interested in an exhaust system that doubles the value of their bike.

I wish V&H would build a street version of their drag pipes, with the collector underneath the engine instead of beside it. Keep the same short, equal length primary tubes and the true megaphone tailpipe (with a reverse cone to remove the torque drop in the midrange) and a small muffler section after the meg. I would pay new prices for that in a second. But they don't seem to be interested... Guess I will have to make my own, then.

Mark

Something like this?

 

[doctorgonzo]

Something like this?

I've seen those ebay, not sure what to think about them.

 

[lurch12_2000]

I've seen those ebay, not sure what to think about them.

I assume these have to be removed to change the oil and filter?
Looks like you would have to make your own custom hanger to hold up the back end too?

 

[doctorgonzo]

I assume these have to be removed to change the oil and filter?
Looks like you would have to make your own custom hanger to hold up the back end too?

Yeah, it looks like both those would be true. Oh where are you Kerker, why did you have to fade away!
I don't like the look of that X pipe really, plus the downsides you mention, plus it's over 400 and I can get a V&H for 300. I'd already have my V&H if the last 6 weeks hadn't been spent replacing the stator once and the R/R unit twice. Could have bought the pipe for what that cost me.

 

[Mark M]

Something like this?

Nope, those are simply snake oil and no better than the other commercial headers available. They are available, however, so that is a plus. I was thinking of something like this:

http://www.mpsracing.com/products/VandH/pipes.asp

But set up to have the collector underneath the engine instead of beside it.

Mark

 

[doctorgonzo]

Whoa... those are weird as well. My fist GS was an 81 gs1000S with the factory 4 into 1 (you don't want to know what hapened to that bike). That was a nice looking exhaust love to find one of those new (for less than the fortune they'd want for it).

 

[Mark M]

Whoa... those are weird as well.

Not weird, functional. The header twists the way it does to get the primary tubes all the same length and keep the overall length down. It exits to the side so that the bike can be lowered as low as possible, since this is a drag only system. It uses a megaphone tailpipe because that is the optimal power producing setup and it looks like they have a reverse cone on the meg, which helps kill the torque dip at around 1/2 the tuning rpm range.

4-1 headers combined with a megaphone are the optimal power producing set up, which is why the drag racers and F1 use them almost exclusively. Everything else is inferior in terms of maximum output.

Mark

 

[doctorgonzo]

That all makes perfect sense. I just don't like them cosmetically, matter of taste.

 

[andrewclaycomb]

with the sidewinder exhaust you will lose cornering clearance. Sometimes by a lot depending on the bike.

 

[Mark M]

That all makes perfect sense. I just don't like them cosmetically, matter of taste.

The sidewinder design isn't the most attractive one, it is for power not looks. I want the same header and pipe dimensions, packaged with the collector under the engine like typical 4-1 aftermarket systems.

with the sidewinder exhaust you will lose cornering clearance. Sometimes by a lot depending on the bike.

I know, that's why I don't want one. I am just saying it makes the most power. I want a "conventional" 4-1 arrangement, with the sidewinder primary tube dimensions and the meg tail pipe. Which V&H don't seem to be interested in producing, unfortunately. If I ever get to it, I am going to make my own but it will not happen very quickly with my work and family commitments.

Mark

 

[Guest]

4-1

4-1

You'll have to watch the speed bumps. Some will come down hard after the front wheel comes down off the bump.
What I don't like is that my 4-1 is offset an inch or so for a center stand and # 3 pipe scrapes when I lean it into a right hander. I don't think there is a solution other than custom pipes.

 

[Mark M]

You'll have to watch the speed bumps. Some will come down hard after the front wheel comes down off the bump.
What I don't like is that my 4-1 is offset an inch or so for a center stand and # 3 pipe scrapes when I lean it into a right hander. I don't think there is a solution other than custom pipes.

My Kerker 4-1 hasn't given me any clearance issues, but I do not see speed bumps very often and I am very aware of possibly hanging up.

Unfortunately, a custom 4-1 isn't going to be any better because that big collector has to hang down there under the engine. But it may improve access to the oil filter and drain plug.

Mark

 

[TheCafeKid]

Ive never had a problem with cornering clearance with my 4into1s and my 77 750 is actually LOWERED just a hair. I DO however HAVE to remove the pipe in order to get to the filter. You could probably get in there, but you'd have oil all over the pipe. Frankly, if you have good header bolts, its not as big of a PITA as you might think, for one, because the 4into1 is MUCH lighter than the stock system, and for two, it comes apart. You can take the meg off seperately off the headers.

Noise issues: When i first bought my 77 750, the VH came with it, but the idiot PO had not only NOT jetted the bike for the pods and pipe, but he also CUT the baffle out of the pipe. Needless to say it was LOUD LOUD. Loud enough that Harley guys were staring at ME...lol. It did sound mean as hell, but it was just too much. SO i ordered a replacement baffle from VH, complete with the wrapping. It quieted down considerably, and there is no replacement for that sweet sound. Now mind you, if you get on it, it will still scream, but just general riding, normal shifting range, its not all that bad. Definately less offensive than most of the Harleys around here.

Performance gains: They are REAL. If you tune the bike for the pipe, you will get a marginal increase in upper end power, you will lose just a tad of midrange, but even on a 750, its nearly un-noticeable. For maximum bang for the buck, couple the pipe with pods. There is alot of hubub on this board from people about pods, some are downright facist about keeping the stock airbox. But IF you know how to, or know someone who knows how to, tune the carbs and the bike properly for the pods and pipe combo, it is the SINGLE biggest bang for the buck performance mod you can do short of a complete overbore kit.

Mike, if you're talking about Pods and Pipe for your "T", get a Dynojet kit, stage 3. If you follow their instructions, and use K&N pods, you can do it yourself and dial it in pretty damn precisely. For us guys with the VM carbs (except for Bruce and his 1000, which they make a Dyno kit for) we have to do it by hand unfortunately, but there is pleanty of info on here to get them dialed in.

 

[UncleMike]

Mike, if you're talking about Pods and Pipe for your "T", get a Dynojet kit, stage 3. If you follow their instructions, and use K&N pods, you can do it yourself and dial it in pretty damn precisely. For us guys with the VM carbs (except for Bruce and his 1000, which they make a Dyno kit for) we have to do it by hand unfortunately, but there is pleanty of info on here to get them dialed in.

But if I just go with the 4-1 and the stock airbox, do I need to go with a jet kit? If so, probably just a stage 1, yes?

 

[Guest]

Yessir, I believe that would be just fine. \\/ Stage one kits (DJ, anyway) are for bikes with after market exhausts and stock airboxes.

 

[doctorgonzo]

But if I just go with the 4-1 and the stock airbox, do I need to go with a jet kit? If so, probably just a stage 1, yes?

I Don't know it ofhand, but check the price difference between the stage 1 kit and the stage 1 and 3 kit. If it's not significant, then you have the stage 3 in case you decide on pods in the future.

 

[Guest]

For the McGuyvers out there.

The first generation Yamaha FZ1s have a nice flat 4 into 1 collector on the bottom. The back end of the collector has a butterfly valve thats controlled by the TPS on the carbs. The butterfly valve increases back pressure and torque at lower RPMs, the guts can be removed to make it in-operable and wide open.

I know it would be a humungus job to graft the GS down pipes to one but they do just about give these things away when they install after market headers. The FZ1 down pipes are stainless. The back pipe is about 2.25" dia. Just a thought!

 

[Texatl]

I Don't know it ofhand, but check the price difference between the stage 1 kit and the stage 1 and 3 kit. If it's not significant, then you have the stage 3 in case you decide on pods in the future.

I just looked- price is the same between and stage 1 and stage 3. They also sell a Stage 1 AND 3 together. FYI

 

[doctorgonzo]

I just looked- price is the same between and stage 1 and stage 3. They also sell a Stage 1 AND 3 together. FYI

Yeah, that's what I meant. If the 1 and 3 together (what I bought) is a good price break from buying each individually, then get the combined kit and you have everything for both setups.