79 GS750 wiring no battery

[Steve]

If you are talking about the R/R, there are no "points" involved. :-k

And if you don't KNOW what's behind the ignition cover, why are we bothering to guess about it?

It doesn't matter who installed something (or not) or how long ago, just open the cover to see what's there.

There will be no further assistance until then.

.

 

[switchback_bomber]

I KNOW they aren't points, i just didn't know what else to call them. so far i've been told multiple times that they would not be points if their is an electronic ignition connected to it, I was simply saying points because i didn't know any better, not because that is what they are.

as I mentioned earlier, now im pitching everything, except the stator and the coils, since the wires, ignition, and regulator are fried . once I decided to do that instead, I uploaded a new diagram of what I think will work using the dyna s CDI (no I was not saying that is what my bike has, and don't worry there are no points in the diagram), and asked for feedback on that, not the stuff I am throwing away.

 

[Brendan W]

oops, well I guess i'm canceling that order.

I think i found the wiring info for the sh775, is it that the points are on the left side, and on the right side, the outside connector is the negative, and the inside connector is the positive?

The SH775 is a combined regulator rectifier unit. The two wire connector is the positive and ground. The three wire connector is for the three stator phase inputs.

 

[Steve]

I KNOW they aren't points, i just didn't know what else to call them.
... using the dyna s CDI ...

As long as we are clearing up terminology, the Dyna is NOT a "CDI". It is just an electronic ignition module that controls the electrical current through the coils. A "CDI" system uses a bunch of electronics to charge a large capacitor, which is then discharged on command, hence the name Capacitive Discharge Ignition. Because you still have coils, you have an Inductive Discharge Ignition, but nobody calls it an IDI.

.

 

[Chuck78]

Forgive me if I missed something in my 60 second skim reading of everything past the first post (on short lunchbreak).

Did you call Dynatek yet?

The Dyna S will not really work for a capacitor start (battery delete) system. The Dyna requires 11.7 volts minimum, and CONSISTENTLY (i.e. not through quick kickstart PULSES), & is not a good candidate.
A 4 cell Lithium-Iron-Phosphate battery from Antigravity ($109.99 XPS 4 cell) or Ballistic will do you very well, and you'll have lights if the bike stalls at night or if you are in the middle of nowhere. Theseweigh a mere 1lb, & are barely bigger than a deck of cards.
On a side note, a Dyna won't survive on much less than 12v minimum running, so a healthy charging system AND ignition relay mod are CRITICAL for reliability.

If truly dead set on battery and starter delete, you either want points, or a DIY system built from GM HEI car modules and the simpler of the two types of factory CDI pulse generators look up Louaka LoudGPZ/LoudHVX on KZ forums, and a member on here who worked wirh Lou on a GS version of that. Somewhere I have saved the schematics that the GSR member emailed me.

The 4 cell Lithium battery route is great vecause you can keep the Dyna-S, but run without the weight of a starter or big battery, AND have lighting for emergency situations when bike is not running.

Oh, and you will absolutely need to buy a starter hole plug from APE Race Parts (GSZone.biz?) or else you will have a substantial oil leak out the starter hole and down through the drain hole in tbe starter cavity. Trust me, vapors and stay oil splatter will very quickly find it's way onto the ground and the left side of your rear tire.

 

[Chuck78]

Search "Polaris 4012941" (OEM #) to find used SH775 regulator-rectifiers on eBay
The "new" $50 units are not at all the same, they are garbage, a chinese knockoff with crude internal components

I KNOW they aren't points, i just didn't know what else to call them.

So far i've been told multiple times that they would not be points if their is an electronic ignition connected to it

So you were told that "it is not points if there is an electronic ignition attached to it."

This is a very misinformed statement unless you have a Martek box external to the pulse generator ignition modules... or an OEM Suzuki 1980+ electronic ignition.

The electronic ignition would take the place of the points, and additionally, if it were the later generation of the old school Martek optical triggered electronic ignition, then there would be a seperate box attached externally. Dyna-S does not have an additional electronic ignition attached to it externally, neither does the early Dyna system, neitger does the early Martek system, neither does the C5 optically triggered ignition

So if you have an electronic ignition, it would be where the points were previously, and all you have to do is take out three little 5mm or smaller screws to check this. PLEASE by all means, do this, and post a picture! Riggt side engine case little round cover. The 1977-79 points will have a heat resistant cloth type fabric insulation sleeve over two wires, a black and a white. Electronic such as Dyna and Martek will have a plasticized/rubbery sleeve insulating the individual wires

 

[switchback_bomber]

steve, go on ebay and look up Dyna s CDI gs750... its wrong and your right, but you can't blame me this time:dancing:

chuck, I have given up on the battery delete, and the 4-cell is on its way. For the starter plug am I looking for the 30mm, with 3/8" vent hose(its the only one I see)?

 

[switchback_bomber]

attached is the wiring diagram i have drawn up using a 4-cell, the dyna DS3-2, an sh775, and all the wiring to the lights cropped out. do you guys see any flaws, or reasons this shouldn't work

 

[Chuck78]

They make it with no vent also, or at least they used to. The o-ring groove is positioned in such a location that it not only seals, but also locks the plug into place with the o-ring sitting just barely inside of the stator housing area but still tightly enough to seal.

Vented is not a bad thing at all, but you'll have one extra hose to figure out what to do with (I use an empty seafoam cannister wrapped in black vinyl electrical tape and hose clamped to my frame with cushions around the frame, breather hose inserted with a filter sock zip tied around hose, and cloth also semi-sealing the remainder of the mouth of the bottle.
You can buy chinese anodized aluminum catch cans on ebay as well. They do still need to be vented, so if it onky has one inlet, and the rest is sealed, it is pointless.
Some plumb them into their pods with 3 wye or tee fittings.
If you dont have good pods yet, look into the K&N RC2222's for KZ1000/Z1/GS750-850-1000 '77-79
Cheaper and more flow than the standard big oval pods, better plenum effect also, resists cross breeze irregularities between inner 2 and outer 2 cylinders (they all go equally lean, but less end exposure for the cross breeze to affect).

Way back, K&N actually sold a version of the RC2222 with a breather hose connection on each of the 2 dual oval filters. Brilliant. Long since discontinued. Even at 40 years on this earth, I only know that from seeing a NOS RC-2222 on ebay, & saw that the old old packaging had 2 check boxes, the one not checked was for the version with breather hose connections.
You can fit a hose nipple to the backs of those and use a Wye splitter fitting and vent the top breather into them that way, or also use the starter hole plug breather into one filter, and the top breather into the other. With 2 different breathers, I'd opt to tie them into a hose barb cross fitting in order to more evenly distribute the oil mist into all 4 cylinders.

Best luck, and please post up post of your ignition with the small round right side cover removed. Im curious if its a Dyna-S (old or new version), the older style Dyna, Martek, or retrofited 1980+ OEM Suzuki.

 

[Chuck78]

And by the way, I've been running a starter delete for years, with a 4 cell Anti-Gravity XPS battery. Kicker-only 77 GS750 heavily modded and on a serious diet. 512lbs stock, dry weight. Added dual disc front end (twinpot mod, see GSR forum thread), & added 3 sizes wider rear / 2 sizes wider (&18" down from 19") front (alloy) rims and substantially wider tires, still knocked that 512lbs dry down to 460lbs WITH 1 gallon of gas and oil to capacity (dry weight of 512 is w/o fuel/oil). This made a substantial difference in bike handling, along with stiffer fork springs & MikesXS.net cartridge emulators, and good super grippy tires (Bridgestone Battlax BT45V are the best overall when considering grip vs rear wear - & they are tbe fastest steering; Shinko 230 TourMaster, Pirelli Sport Demon, or Continental Classic Attack RADIALS being the other awesome choices). Those mods there, and the twinpot brake mod (talk to salty_monk, he makes the adapter brackets) are the biggest mods to improve handling.
A lighter weight 4:1 exhaust, center stand delete, and a good pair of shocks (i.e. $220+ Hagon or YSS at minimum) will really help also.

This combo I have with some shorter forks and taller Fox Shox and 18" front wheel is absolute heaven for bombing those switchbacks.... I'm an absolute twisty road maniac, always fiending for some deep Southeast Ohio Appalachian hills rides...

 

[Chuck78]

Also with 4-1 & pods, you will want to step up your pilots to 17.5 or even larger, use a 5DL35 or 5DL36 slide needle aka jet needle (GS550/850/1000 77-79, & some GS750's - '79?), not the fat 5F21 on earlier 77-78 750's, & 115-125 mains depending on engine condition, valve adjustment, altitude, humidity, etc.

Lastly, with a kicker only setup and $#!++? ethanol crap gas, you will need real clean carbs, and probably a slightky larger pilot jet (20 or 22.5 even) to ensure reliable cold starting for the long term. And do not soak the carbs in any ultrasonic solution that is not good for aluminum, and dint leave water in them for long once cleaned - chase with aerosol Berryman's carb cleaner and then even coat parts of the carb with WD40 to prevent the white death corrosion from starting in on them. Ethanol will make it harder to kick start after its sat fir a while since it is tital crap garbage fuel, unlike butanol or superior alcohol fuels.

 

[Chuck78]

attached is the wiring diagram i have drawn up using a 4-cell, the dyna DS3-2, an sh775, and all the wiring to the lights cropped out. do you guys see any flaws, or reasons this shouldn't work

Go to a single point ground method. Search the forum for a threadon this. Jim aka posplayr is an aviation electronics engineer and GS wizard. His word is gold.

And you definitely should have that fuse before the ignition switch as close to the battery and charging system as possible, and Jim might tell you that you need to have the battery fused separately, so that total battery failure does not hurt the system.

 

[Chuck78]

Please post picture of your bike project also! If you are planning on chopping the back half of the frame off, do not weld on the typical hoop that absolutely kills your clearance for suspension travel down to the rear tire. This is the hugest Cafe Racer wannabe mistake ever made, and it is on most cafe racers... You definitely don't want to do that. I would advise against cutting the frame all together, use the stock GS tail and modify it and the seat and slam it a little bit forward, reshape the foam and pan, and then recover. This is way more tasteful and 1,000 times less generic than most fake-looking Cafe Racer wannabe bikes, even some that are built by high-dollar Los Angeles hipsters...

 

[switchback_bomber]

no hoop, don't plan on chopping anything, and the welds are all good, bike is straight, so I don't think previous owners have done any frame mods.

attached a pic, the good things from previous owners were vance and hines 4-1, and factory/retrofitted dual front brakes. so far i've painted the tank (no clear yet), russell braided steel brake lines, rebuilt rear brake cylinder, CNC adjustable front brake lever, CNC adjustable clutch lever, fabricated a seat, rebuilt(gaiters and seal) fork, added a taillight, brake light, license plate light, headlight, fabricated a tail/brake light and license plate bracket, grips, mirror, and wrapped the header. I have a new dyna ignition on the way, along with speedometer, tachometer, and throttle cables, new petcock, throttle assembly, tachometer, and intake o-rings. I am in the process of rebuilding of the carbs, just got a parts set today, and obviously doing the wiring. in the foreseeable future I plan on getting new brake pads, and tires(not sure how old they are, regardless of the quality when they were new, being cheap and having bad tires is a pretty bad way to go). past that i'll do shocks (still not sure about which ones to get, but ill look into Hagon or YSS), and those K&N RC2222 pods sound good

I'm trying to find the thread on the single point ground, and i'll keep looking, but if you have a link i would be highly appreciated. Thats really one thing I don't like is screwing something to the frame or crimping on a quick connect and calling it done. is the basic concept just taking all the grounds straight to the negative on the battery, and still keeping a frame mount to the negative?

I'm thinking for the starter plug, if i cant find one without the breather, i might have a tube go up through the starter cover, and attach a breather filter just above the starter cover, what do you think?

what do you think for the battery fuse, 30A? also I can definitely do the ignition switch earlier, I have the reg/rec attached to the battery, and both go to the switch right now, are you thinking stator>reg/rec>switch>30A>battery+>10A>ignition?

still not sure what I should do about the jets, I might go 17.5 and then go up from there, since I am in colorado and people tend to prefer leaner here

 

[Chuck78]

No, you missed what I was saying about the wiring and fuses, you need a fuse before the ignition switch, not after. You can have other circuits fused after the ignition switch, but you need a main fuse before you have a bunch of wiring traveling through the bike that could get shorted out and fry everything.

You're doing a lot of customizing & maintenance there already! The dual factory discs and braided lines are good start, but dual factory disks I still find not adequate, but fresh pads and stainless lines will make them a little bit more adequate. I also ride like a crazy maniac sometimes, I warped my CBR900RR rotors, OEM, not Chinese, if that tells you anything. Switchback bomber or Corner Carver would definitely fit the description of much of the reasonings why I ride!

On top of that, as I mentioned, the most crucial things beyond having a well maintained properly functioning bike, are a good sticky performance set of tires, stiffer Fork Springs of the proper spec for your weight and riding style, cartridge emulators added to the fork, good braking, and a good pair of your socks if you can swing it. The $220 Hagon shocks are not rebuildable, but the yss shocks for just a few bucks more are, so I definitely recommend those. If you look at the piggyback version of their ecoline shocks, the C302, it's a bit over $400, but it is probably the best thing that you can get for that kind of money. The E-302 is the non piggyback, which is what I like to recommend for people as the bare minimum good shock to not regret buying.

All of those things that I speak of, tires, suspension, and brakes, always are at the top of the list. Those are all the really critical areas to focus on to get maximum enjoyment and ride quality out of your machine.

It's already a fast bike when you rev it up to the top half of attack, bone-stock, so engine mods can come later as your lust for speed increases over the years. A Wiseco K844 kit, head ported by Rapid Ray, and some Web or Megacycle cams will REALLY make that thing fly. And a crankshaft welded and indexed by Pearson Racing to complete the really solid bottom end. Just the Wiseco kid and a set of web or megacycle cams on their own and a decent valve lapping will make the thing really fly, the rest is just a huge added bonus if you can put a little more money into it.

Best of luck, hit me up anytime or any advice. If I don't have the answer, I can point you to someone who does.

 

[Steve]

... I don't think previous owners have done any frame mods.

Uhh, dude, ... not sure how to tell you this, but you are missing the rear half of your frame.

.

 

[switchback_bomber]

Uhh, dude, ... not sure how to tell you this, but you are missing the rear half of your frame. .

I would be lying if I told you I was even remotely surprised. when everything is perfect you notice the one thing that isn't, when everything is destroyed, you don't notice half of the things that are wrong... in this case my frame smh

 

[switchback_bomber]

Do I want the Battery after or before the switch as well as? This is my first bike so for the moment, as timid as I will be on the bike, better calipers are probably not something I need atm, but i'm sure many would say the opposite is true. definitely getting new pads and tires since both are of questionable age. looking at EBC pads since I had them on my old track car, and they are good and cheap. Not sure what tires I'll get, need to decide how much they cost and what would be good for me. top priority now is getting her running, but I was looking at progressive spring and shocks, any thoughts on them?

I'm between naming the bike "the switchback bomber" or suzy Q.

 

[roeme]

As chuck78 already hinted at;

Dude, the second you drive on that bike you'll ruin your rear tire, your seat and likely your ass. I think fixing that should be your priority. A running but unrideable bike ain't worth jack sh!t.

At least, that's how it looks on that picture. Maybe I'm wrong, take some more pictures to show clearance?

 

[Steve]

... in this case my frame smh

I think your keyboard also has some problems, not typing all the letters you must have pushed. :-k
I don't understand the "smh" and can't figure out what letters were missed. Some of us are OLD guys, not into all the texting "shortcuts" that really don't save any time. On top of that, many of us simply don't appreciate TLAs.

Do I want the Battery after or before the switch as well as?

Look at it this way: how often do you want to have to charge your battery? If there is no switch between the battery and the load (lights, ignition, etc.), the load will be ON all the time. Once the bike is running, there will be no way to turn it off if the switch is before the battery.

This is my first bike so for the moment, as timid as I will be on the bike, better calipers are probably not something I need atm, but i'm sure many would say the opposite is true.

By the time you make the decision "I think I need better brakes", it will probably be too late. As far as "better calipers" are concerned, there is no real problem with the stock units, as long as they are working properly and you are not torturing them at a race track (or riding like you are ON a race track).

definitely getting new pads and tires since both are of questionable age.

I don't think brake pads deteriorate with age, but they are relatively cheap. Tires are easy to determine, just look at the last few digits in the DOT code on the sidewall. By the looks of the tread, you have Shinko 230 Tour Master tires. Good tread, but might be a bit old.

Not sure what tires I'll get, need to decide how much they cost and what would be good for me.

Shinko 230 Tour Master tires are a decent tire. Good traction, predictable handling throughout the life and inexpensive. About $135 for the pair. Depending on your riding style, they could last 5000-8000 miles.

I was looking at progressive spring and shocks, any thoughts on them?

For the forks, Sonic Springs are a better choice. We used to recommend Hagon shocks for the rear, but the guy behind them has retired for medical reasons, don't know if the shocks are available anywhere else. There are cheap shocks on eBay for about $100, but they are not worth the time it takes to blow them up. Hagons were about $200. Progressive shocks are about $300 and are decent. Yes, the choices keep going, you can easily spend over $700 on shocks, if you are really picky.

.