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81 GS650 tuning help Dynojet stage 3

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gsnoob
  • Start date Start date
Wich clip did you say you used the secound form bottom? I think im 3 down from top, did switchign the clip fix the issue or did you have to change mixture as well?
Bribird said:
ya..that is where I was too. the hard part is knowing whether its lean or rich. being that mine wasnt smoking..I assujmed lean and raised the needle a notch...also need to know if you have enough flow resistance to draw the needle up and let the jet flow. With the stock airbox and stock carb setup, all these things were worked out by Suzuki engineers. If I had it to do over again, I would have stayed stock and maybe just played with the main jet a bit or maybe shimmed the needle.

good luck with it.
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Gsnoob said:
Wich clip did you say you used the secound form bottom? I think im 3 down from top, did switchign the clip fix the issue or did you have to change mixture as well?
Click to expand...


the issue sounds like a main jet issue. I think you may need to raise the needle some more....leave your mixture alone if its starting easy and idles smooth. I got into my motor some as far as a mild port then a polish job, then did the 4into1 exhaust and K&N pods...what worked for me I dont think would work for you, its basically matching the flow of the carbs to the exact setup of the bike. I feel your pain man, been there. I would try raising the needles up 2 grooves and see how it acts.
 
Gsnoob said:
Just curious you mention no washer on the new needle? The install sheets all say use the washer not doubting you just wondering what difference leaving it out makes I got everything installed lastngiht but got stuck on the awesome little c-clips holding the old needles in didint have a clip puller so borrowing one form shop today hope to finish tonight. Also sheets say remove float bowl tube if there is one what tube are they refering to? And yes i have doubts but I wanna learn myself how to tune this bike and cant find anyone local who will touch the bike so all on me also there is just something about saying yeah i did the work my self that makes you feel proud to be riding it. :) Unless of course i fck it up completly and then will be no riding but lets hope that doesnt happen lol
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I forgot what it was like trying tuning it myself 30 years ago. well, you'll eventually get it right or push it home -- at best
 
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trippivot said:
I forgot what it was like trying tuning it myself 30 years ago. well, you'll eventually get it right or push it home -- at best
Click to expand...

LMAO!! its only funny cause its true...my push home was only a mile from my house after doing the coil relay mod....even a test running of power wires deserves some electrical tape at least..LOL:o
 
Okay so i just pulled my plugs from that test drive earlier didnt have time to pullem earlier Im pretty sure ive determined i think rich is why im having troubles all my plugs are blacker then black, and all i did was run around the block and get on the throttle till she stumbeld and didnt wanan go. So my question now is what changes shoudl i start with? or where shoudl i go form here mix srew adjust clip adjust?
 
LMAO thats great im sure sometime in my tuning process i will will be endup in the same boat lol
trippivot said:
I forgot what it was like trying tuning it myself 30 years ago. well, you'll eventually get it right or push it home -- at best
Click to expand...
 
I was really hoping to have gotten a reply I really need help at this point I set my mix using high idle method and she seems to run good till I hit main jet then stumblea has no power and turns plugs blacks I'm guessing I need to adjust my needle clip question is what way so I go to lean it and how many notches should I jump I'm on third from top right now hope someone posts soon thanks
 
If you are trying to lean it out, raise the clip which will lower the needle. So, if you are third from the top now, try 2 from the top.
 
Well update i didnt have time to switch the needle until lastngiht took out this morning and its better now before on 3rd notch I couldnt hit it hard in 1st at all or or it would stumble and run like **** till i let off now i can hit ti in 1st - 3rd but top ens of 3rd stumbles i can seem to cruise but if i hit it stumbles and has power loss a high rpm plug chop still looks to me like rich they are still fairly black so what do i do at this poitn is it okay to raise that clip all way up to 1st notch? Or have i developed some other issue note that bike ran fine before kit was just way to lean cause of exhaust

UncleBen said:
If you are trying to lean it out, raise the clip which will lower the needle. So, if you are third from the top now, try 2 from the top.
Click to expand...
 
ok I re read thru this thread. and I want to help.

when installing a jet kit you start with getting a excellent idle FIRST- ok?

I need to know you are not tuning it until the engine is too hot to touch the fins -- get a fan blowing over your engine OR take it for a ride with tools in a pouch. I've whipped off the tank and carbs in a parking lot and made changes many -o- time. (hint) Dont get gasoline on your grips they melt

changing the main jet has nothing to do with getting your bike to idle properly..

put in the smaller main jets again and see what it does.

you may go straight to the top groove but if you are blackening the plugs it's going to be the worse as the throttle is opened widely for highway riding

In my experience- having a smaller main jet and the needle lifted as high as it goes is better than having of a big main jet and the needle in the leanest position.
 
Okay idle seems to be smooth, No im not letting it get that hot I unfortunatly do not have a big fan i adjusted my idle by adjusting lettign cool the adjusting some more however righ tnow its all of about 60 degrees up here in MN at the moment so it stayed pretty cool this morngin when i was messing around with it had no trouble laying hand on engine, I Realize now that main jet and idle are two diff circuts however when starting all this i did not hence my post of changing my jets bigger cause it wouldnt idle lol if that doesnt scream NOOB idk what does. I will go home tonight after work and switch back to 155s rather then the 160s I felt a most deffinate improvment after moving the clip up a notch what notch would you recommed i start on after going back to the 155s? Thanks
trippivot said:
ok I re read thru this thread. and I want to help.

when installing a jet kit you start with getting a excellent idle FIRST- ok?

I need to know you are not tuning it until the engine is too hot to touch the fins -- get a fan blowing over your engine OR take it for a ride with tools in a pouch. I've whipped off the tank and carbs in a parking lot and made changes many -o- time. (hint) Dont get gasoline on your grips they melt

changing the main jet has nothing to do with getting your bike to idle properly..

put in the smaller main jets again and see what it does.

you may go straight to the top groove but if you are blackening the plugs it's going to be the worse as the throttle is opened widely for highway riding

In my experience- having a smaller main jet and the needle lifted as high as it goes is better than having of a big main jet and the needle in the leanest position.
Click to expand...
 
keep them where they are at. You might get lucky

Take it for a few mile ride, the engine really has to be over 150 degrees for your jetting adjustments to react correctly. Ambient temps 60 F and colder you might consider a 1 step hotter spark plug. This does not change the jetting but heat energy from the inner engine parts affects fuel atmoization. We are shooting for good running in all conditions you ride in

not enough heat and the engine will want you to dump gas into it.




but I bet you are getting some confidence and repetition makes adjusting just a little easier.
 
Gsnoob said:
Well update i didnt have time to switch the needle until lastngiht took out this morning and its better now before on 3rd notch I couldnt hit it hard in 1st at all or or it would stumble and run like **** till i let off now i can hit ti in 1st - 3rd but top ens of 3rd stumbles i can seem to cruise but if i hit it stumbles and has power loss a high rpm plug chop still looks to me like rich they are still fairly black so what do i do at this poitn is it okay to raise that clip all way up to 1st notch? Or have i developed some other issue note that bike ran fine before kit was just way to lean cause of exhaust
Click to expand...


You can raise it up to the top notch, but you can also try going a half notch first by leaving the clip in the second notch and then putting a 0.5mm washer right above the e-clip before the plastic ring. If that doesn't do it and you are still rich, remove the washer and then go up to the top clip.
 
See this is why i love this site learn something new all the time i had no idea that temp will affect how much fuel she puts to it I did not have time to change clips lastnight so im glad i read your post before changing again, I will try and go for a tad longer jont before pulling clips again. At this point can i damage my engine if from this rich condition if i take it for a mile or so?
trippivot said:
keep them where they are at. You might get lucky

Take it for a few mile ride, the engine really has to be over 150 degrees for your jetting adjustments to react correctly. Ambient temps 60 F and colder you might consider a 1 step hotter spark plug. This does not change the jetting but heat energy from the inner engine parts affects fuel atmoization. We are shooting for good running in all conditions you ride in

not enough heat and the engine will want you to dump gas into it.




but I bet you are getting some confidence and repetition makes adjusting just a little easier.
Click to expand...
 
Okay good to know that i can go half notches like that i think at some point someone recommended even leaving the washer out all together Im gonna take bike out again tonight and try getting her up to temp like trippivot recommended if still a stumble and rich ill try a half then a full if still no go ill drop back to the 155s that also came with kit.
UncleBen said:
You can raise it up to the top notch, but you can also try going a half notch first by leaving the clip in the second notch and then putting a 0.5mm washer right above the e-clip before the plastic ring. If that doesn't do it and you are still rich, remove the washer and then go up to the top clip.
Click to expand...
 
and yes trippivot my confidence in this is most deff improving lol, I now dont feel quite like im going blow it up everytime i change something. ;)
 
You won't hurt the engine by running it rich, it is the lean condition that will burn a hole in the top of your piston.
 
Okay so as of tongiht its sooo close i can feel it tried washer, stumble black pugs, move to first notch no stumble unless i hit it hard and bring past 7k then stumbles but still feels like wants to try and go and i can actually cruise at 55 with out any realy noticable problems pop here and there, but now its to late to be running it up and down the road without ****ing someone off so ill pick it up again after work tomorrow, Im thinking maybe just try pulling washer and trying one more run at 1st notch without washer before pulling mains and dropping the 155s in. Questions being can it be run wihtout the little metal washer or is thta not recommended second if I have to drop the 155s tomorrow night what notch shoudl i start on? I was thinking the very 1st on bottom seeing im so close but not sure thats why im turnign to the pros thanks
 
Let's make sure we are tracking the same transition periods; you have two. The first is from the pilot jet to the needle. The second is from the needle to the main jet. Are we discussing the second? It would help to clarify.
thx.
 
idle-main-needle in that order

idle-main-needle in that order

when you say hitting it hard do you mean very quickly opening the throttle over half way immediately? Any CV carb will fall on it's face until vacuum catches up and draws more fuel in..

these type of carbs do not have accellerator pumps so don't crank them open and think there is a problem.. I call it stabbing into the throttle.

the little washers are half steps between the needle notches -- very super fine adjustments... you are not there yet. if you don't need them leave them OUT.

ok you understand to get the idle perfect 1st.. second step is to get W.O.T.(main jet circuit) to make power but not foul the plugs.. then finally start disecting the midrange needle settings.

to get the main jet circuit correct you have to get in high gear over 6K RPM and over 3/4 open throttle ~( W-ide O -pen T- hrottle)\\

you want a main jet that pulls HARD to redline with out blackening / sooting up the plugs... this is when you should have a couple of clean plugs for a visual .choose a cylinder and guess at the other 3.
I do the testing by pulling the choke/enrichener while going down the highway.. you are looking for the choke/enrichener to kill the power not make more. W.O.T. plug chopping is not necessary for average riding - when you get a plug color lighter than greasy/sooty BLACK you are getting close and can do the micro adjustments with your washers and needle position. I love how smooth well tuned CV carbs transition from idle to midrange and gear shifting is easier - MPG goes up and the world becomes a better place

you are not going to permantly damage anything with overly rich -- lean has to go into lean misfire to do damage. lean misfire is a horrible popping cracking jumping event. shown by White Blistered plugs- and an engine that just wont go or stop with predictable pattern.
 
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