82 1100e rough running, poor compression, etc

[howling60]

Morning all!

Some quick background. I picked up this 82 1100E 2 summers ago with 43xxx miles on it. Has a kerker 4-1 and is otherwise stock. Ran great when i picked it up, no signs of issues. Rode it all that summer, parked it for the winter.

Last memorial day I headed down to ride deals-gap. Prior to the ride, i went through the bike, cleaned up electrical, new plugs, oil, valve adjustment.

half way through first day the engine started to run a little rough.. just a slight vibe could be felt. continued w/no real change for the rest of the 2 days. When i got it home (maine) it got worse... I tore down the carbs, cleaned them, shimmed the needles, bench sync. Put back together, same result. really rough idle, doesn't smooth out anywhere in rev range. Checked valve adjust again, *think* i've got them in spec but at this point.. really not sure anymore.
Checked timing, both static and with light. all good. Checked plug gap, all set.
Hooked the carb sync up to it... can't for the life of me get all 4 to stay anywhere near each other. Also getting lots of moisture buildup in each pickup tube.
So, last night I picked up a new compression tester to fit the 12mm plugs.
results on a cold dry engine:
150
110 (didn't pump right up.. needed to give it approx 2x as many cranks)
110 (got there no probs)
140

a little oil in the cyls, did it again
160
140
150
150
all of them pumped right up immediately.

Now, i'm not an "old hand" at engines, but i've rebuilt my auto-x VW engine 3 times, and torn down my kl250 single several times.

These compression results are leading me to believe i really should tear off the head, jugs. new hone on the jugs and new rings on all 4 cyl.
Other thoughts?
Heck, I am not even sure i'm getting my valves set correctly at this point.

Would love a little more thoughts here... any little bit helps.

Thanks all!

-Nate

 

[tom203]

If it's been sitting idle since last memorial day, there be like no oil hanging around in cylinder bores, so I think the added oil test means more in this case. What's the problem checking valve clearances?

Anyways, maybe you picked up some bad fuel along your trip which gunked up carbs and your first cleaning was inadequate. I do alot more testing before ripping into it. How about you carb boots, maybe you got intake leaks.

 

[howling60]

Ah, hasn't been sitting idle since last year. has been run numerous times over the winter trying to see if i could find the issues.
Had it up & going 2 weeks ago with the carb sync tool on.

Has brand new carb boots.

Will be attempting more testing after doing another carb teardown. double checking float heights, etc.

Checking of clearances... I feel like i'm checking/setting incorrectly? Using straight feeler gauges, and have bent a set as well to get in at the odd angles... I should be sliding in at right angles to the tappet adjuster/parallel to the actual "valve top" correct?

 

[AJ]

82 1100E ***with 43xxx miles on it. ***

These compression results are leading me to believe i really should tear off the head, jugs. new hone on the jugs and new rings on all 4 cyl.
Other thoughts?
Heck, I am not even sure i'm getting my valves set correctly at this point.

Would love a little more thoughts here... any little bit helps.

-Nate

That you got the compression to come up when you added oil indicates that your valves, adjusted or not, are not contributing to the issue. A proper leak down test might uncover valve issues as well, but you're pulling this motor apart either way.

With this high of mileage (43K) and compression numbers that low, I'd bet that a hone and new rings ain't gonna cut it. You'd be much better off having the cylinders bored and going to the next appropriate piston size. Cut new valve seats and face the valves would be advised as well.

Of course, then you might as well install the 1150 intake valves while you have it apart. ;-)

 

[eil]

My understanding is that compression test on a cold engine is not accurate. The best info you get from that is whether there's even enough compression to start it.

Warm the engine up, do another compression test, and check those against the factory manual. Remember that the throttle must be wide open when cranking.

 

[tom203]

New carb boots! good thinking. I think eil is right about valves being likely OK based on added oil test. another go on carbs seems smart

I'm trying to recall which of these big guys has press fit crank problems- the "slight vibe" and erratic idle stuff - I'm sure someone will save me

 

[jona]

I didn't think 43k was that high of miles for these bikes?

 

[Big T]

I didn't think 43k was that high of miles for these bikes?

You are correct

I'm thinking a TDC check on each cylinder is in order

 

[habsdoc]

Plug wires or caps???

Plug wires or caps???

Are the plug wires and caps new or originals??? Had 2 plug wires and 1 cap go bad on me this spring. The brass piece inside of the cap had actually come unscrewed to the point where it was only holding by a thread.

 

[howling60]

You are correct

I'm thinking a TDC check on each cylinder is in order

Yeah, going to give that a whirl this weekend. I was thinking that there was a chance... this does have a pressed crank and all. I've never beat it, but previous owners probly did.

*sigh* we shall see.

 

[Guest]

New carb boots! good thinking. I think eil is right about valves being likely OK based on added oil test. another go on carbs seems smart

I'm trying to recall which of these big guys has press fit crank problems- the "slight vibe" and erratic idle stuff - I'm sure someone will save me

Later model '82 GS1100E's have welded cranks. I don't know what engine serial number they started with, maybe someone will chime in with that.

 

[gs scott]

82 e

82 e

Nate,
Have you rechecked your electrics - plugs, alternator, ground and coil output?
And your carbs are really clean?

 

[howling60]

Nate,
Have you rechecked your electrics - plugs, alternator, ground and coil output?
And your carbs are really clean?

Plugs are new. Plug Caps are new. Need to double/triple check coils/wires.
charging system is 100% brand new (electrosport stator, compufire series reg, battery is 1 season old). Have a "quick" aka dirty/testing coil relay mod delivering a solid healthy 12V to coils.
Grounds could stand to be checked, but certainly seemed good last I looked.

Carbs will be torn down again, most likely will use my ultrasonic cleaner this time to clean them out (rather than just carb dip)

If anyone can chime in on when they got the welded cranks, as well as a "good" method to verify crank phasing I would appreciate it!

-Nate

 

[tom203]

If anyone can chime in on when they got the welded cranks, as well as a "good" method to verify crank phasing I would appreciate it!

-Nate

How about first seeing if 1 and 4 appear to be at TDC together? dial indicator with long probe would be handy- first verify that #4 hits TDC on timing mark , probably could tell closely with nail thru plug hole; checking #1 would be a little trickier, but this crude method should spot a 5 degree error moving across crankshaft.

 

[howling60]

good call. I often overthink it. This would certainly be the quickest/easiest way to check the entire assembly.

 

[AJ]

What am I missing here? Low compression without oil, slow to come up on one cylinder, compression restored with oil and comes up right away. What part of that needs electrics, carb boots, or even welded/pressed cranks to understand?

And, no, 43K is not excessively high mileage for this engine, but it's not exactly low either. The '82 11E was a high power musclebike of it's day, likely to be flogged regularly, air-only cooling, & no oil cooler. Even has poor oil pickup on it's sidestand. These engines get ratty with miles. Goes with the territory.

 

[tom203]

What am I missing here? Low compression without oil, slow to come up on one cylinder, compression restored with oil and comes up right away........

Maybe, but howling60's first post said......

".....half way through first day the engine started to run a little rough.. just a slight vibe could be felt. continued w/no real change for the rest of the 2 days. When i got it home (maine) it got worse... I tore down the carbs, cleaned them, shimmed the needles, bench sync. Put back together, same result. really rough idle, doesn't smooth out anywhere in rev range"

This vibration stuff could be crank problems- beats me, but I'd check since these monsters likely get flogged and some have had crank problems based on what I have read here- I love one piece forged cranks!

 

[Big T]

good call. I often overthink it. This would certainly be the quickest/easiest way to check the entire assembly.

4 plastic soda straws, 1 sharpie

Pull the plugs, insert straws in cylinders

Pull the ignition cover, rotate crank - see if the straws hit TDC in pairs

Set 1-4 TDC, mark straws
Set 2-3 TDC, mark straws

Pull straws and check the relative position of the marks

If your crank is twisted, it needs to go to a specialist who has the jig for it.

 

[AJ]

Maybe, but howling60's first post said......

".....half way through first day the engine started to run a little rough.. just a slight vibe could be felt. continued w/no real change for the rest of the 2 days. When i got it home (maine) it got worse... I tore down the carbs, cleaned them, shimmed the needles, bench sync. Put back together, same result. really rough idle, doesn't smooth out anywhere in rev range"

This vibration stuff could be crank problems- beats me, but I'd check since these monsters likely get flogged and some have had crank problems based on what I have read here- I love one piece forged cranks!

Agreed. And Big-T's soda straw test is simple enough to do that it's worth checking. At a minimum, there would be the peace of mind if h60 learns his crank is good.

Either way, it sure sounds like this motor is coming apart. Let's hope it's not the crank. That becomes a much bigger project.

 

[howling60]

Agreed. And Big-T's soda straw test is simple enough to do that it's worth checking. At a minimum, there would be the peace of mind if h60 learns his crank is good.

Either way, it sure sounds like this motor is coming apart. Let's hope it's not the crank. That becomes a much bigger project.

I like it!

on the upside... GRC is a 10 minute drive from me... and i've heard MUCH discussion about his crank work here on these boards

Unfortunately for me... i've been too darn busy to do any testing since my last post.

Will be hoping to get to it in next week or so... i already feel riding season running away from me... again

-Nate