'82 450 Igniter - Repair, Replace, or Make?

[Jman750e]

Been following this thread for a few days. Still try to wrap my head around this wealth of info. Just recently purchased a '80 gs450 that wasn't running, needs an ignitor. Been a few day and ready to hear the good news.

 

[Guest]

Ooops, haven't gotten back to updating this thread!

Basically, it's gonna be a while until I get back to testing again as I'm going to need to wait until I can get the exhaust made up. Unfortunately I'm experiencing budget cuts currently so the exhaust is on hold temporarily, hopefully only a month or so.

On another note altogether, I shot Lou off an email and he has replied, and I think I may end up having some troubles when I rev going by what he's thinking at the moment.

Nothing concrete, and I can't see it being easy for him to help too much as he'll only be able to go by what I can tell him, and I don't fully understand all this stuff.

So, stay tuned for sure...

 

[Matchless]

Pete, if you find you really cannot get it to work, consider fitting a pair of pickups of another bike or you may have to fall back and build that German guys schematic. At least you are not out of options!

 

[Guest]

Pete, if you find you really cannot get it to work, consider fitting a pair of pickups of another bike or you may have to fall back and build that German guys schematic. At least you are not out of options!

Very true Andre! I ain't givin' up on it as I really want to see if I can find a cheaper alternative for us 450 owners as the OEM ignitors seem to be quite flaky when combined with the dodgy charging systems on these bikes, and working ones are now becoming quite rare and expensive second hand.

There is defnitely more than one option left if this doesn't work out

I'm quietly confident I'll get it to work, and quite stoked that Lou replied to my "Mr Random from the Internet" email...

 

[Matchless]

There is defnitely more than one option left if this doesn't work out

I'm quietly confident I'll get it to work, and quite stoked that Lou replied to my "Mr Random from the Internet" email...

Yes Lou is a good guy and very helpful
The rest of your build seems to be coming on nicely.
Keep well.

 

[spyug]

I ain't givin' up on it as I really want to see if I can find a cheaper alternative for us 450 owners as the OEM ignitors seem to be quite flaky when combined with the dodgy charging systems on these bikes, and working ones are now becoming quite rare and expensive second hand.

Based on my current findings with the 1983/86 550 project I think there are more than a few bikes that fall in to this category. In the case of this bike I think the options are even more limited as the only non OEM solution that would be easiest to install would be the kit offered by Boyer Bransden in England. At $277 before taxes and duties to north America not viable for a lot of folks, myself included.

I am not electronically inclined so bodging up one myself would be impossible but a kit with supplied components and a build plan might be doable for myself and a lot of guys. The problem as I see it now , however, is that a "universal" box would be impossible due to the variations in ignition advance curves for the different engines.It would be great if it could be done.

At the present time, I'm moving forward on the assumption (there I go again) that an igniter from a similar but perhaps larger engine of the same era ( i.e. 700 to 1000) coupled with its own signal generator might work. I really don't know and can't get any definitive answers until I try it. I am trying to source them now.

This is all really frustrating as we have these otherwise correctly functioning bikes that are just so much junk without these "modules". Like you, Pete, my back is up now and I'm determined to find something (fairly priced) that will work. Well done on your research and the project so far, I, along with many others are pulling for you and a happy ending to your saga.

Cheers mate,
Spyug

 

[Guest]

Yes Lou is a good guy and very helpful
The rest of your build seems to be coming on nicely.
Keep well.

He certainly is Andre, and thanks for making me aware of his existence

And yep, it is progressing ok, although I really wish I had unlimited funds so I could just get everything done right now

Based on my current findings with the 1983/86 550 project I think there are more than a few bikes that fall in to this category. In the case of this bike I think the options are even more limited as the only non OEM solution that would be easiest to install would be the kit offered by Boyer Bransden in England. At $277 before taxes and duties to north America not viable for a lot of folks, myself included.

I am not electronically inclined so bodging up one myself would be impossible but a kit with supplied components and a build plan might be doable for myself and a lot of guys. The problem as I see it now , however, is that a "universal" box would be impossible due to the variations in ignition advance curves for the different engines.It would be great if it could be done.

At the present time, I'm moving forward on the assumption (there I go again) that an igniter from a similar but perhaps larger engine of the same era ( i.e. 700 to 1000) coupled with its own signal generator might work. I really don't know and can't get any definitive answers until I try it. I am trying to source them now.

This is all really frustrating as we have these otherwise correctly functioning bikes that are just so much junk without these "modules". Like you, Pete, my back is up now and I'm determined to find something (fairly priced) that will work. Well done on your research and the project so far, I, along with many others are pulling for you and a happy ending to your saga.

Cheers mate,
Spyug

I'm with ya' Spyug.

What complicates yours is electronic advance, and that means any replacement has gotta give you a similar advance curve, unless of course you can replace the guts with a mechanical advance type.

As long as you can phsically get the bits to fit, I can't see any reason your idea won't work, and the big difficulty will probably be getting the timing worked out.

Thanks for your input, glad to see there's more of us keen to find an alternative that doesn't break the bank.

Of course, we could all just go back to points...

 

[Matchless]

Here is a place in Belgium that has quite a selection:
http://programmable-ignition.com/contact.htm

 

[Guest]

Can't believe I never replied to this!

Andre, they do have quite a selection, but no ignitors for the 450's...

I've also emailed Wayne Gum at www.erd.co.nz about his Hyperpak ignitor.

He needed clarification as to whether it's electronic or mechanical advance and unfortunately I haven't heard back since. I sent that email a couple of weeks ago, so I've just sent another reply now.

Also, a bit of a non-update... got a case to put the ignition circuit in once it's finalised:



And it looks like I'll be able to take a week off at the end of June when I should be able to get it towed to Tranzac for the exhaust and do some painting, so I should be able to resume testing after that.

Pity it's so far away...

 

[Guest]

Got a reply from Wayne of ERD on the Hyperpak ignitor, and he does electronic advance ignitors only, so nothing for the 450.

So, there are only 4 options:

1. OEM
2. Dyna + Dyna coils
3. Boyer Bransden (think I recall seeing these discontinued though)
4. Make one

Glad I've continued with the GM HEI modules...

 

[spyug]

Well Pete just to encourage you, I was finally able to get the 700 and 750 igniters to work in my 550 today. The secret for me was using the 700 or 750 igniter with the signal generator from the same bike. I'm still not sure if it will work properly as I'm not yet able to fire up my bike (one coil is wonky and needs replacing) but I do have spark and that was the major issue for me. The ignition advance curve built in to the igniter box will be the real key.

I've been talking with a few of the fellas and there is a great interest in seeing what you come up with so hang in there my friend. We do have faith that you can pull something off and as anxiously awaiting.

Good luck with it my friend.

Cheers,
Spyug

 

[Matchless]

Pete,
You may want to add a used Ignitor to your list. As you know by now they are hard to find due to their higher failure rate.

I am watching your thread and holding thumbs for that final confirmation that the HEI ignitor works correctly when you bike is rideable! And I think so are a few others as well.
Keep well.

 

[Flaming Chainsaws]

Pete,
You may want to add a used Ignitor to your list. As you know by now they are hard to find due to their higher failure rate.

I am watching your thread and holding thumbs for that final confirmation that the HEI ignitor works correctly when you bike is rideable! And I think so are a few others as well.
Keep well.

I found these on eBay. I know some people here have been looking for one.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=175775

 

[Guest]

Well Pete just to encourage you, I was finally able to get the 700 and 750 igniters to work in my 550 today. The secret for me was using the 700 or 750 igniter with the signal generator from the same bike. I'm still not sure if it will work properly as I'm not yet able to fire up my bike (one coil is wonky and needs replacing) but I do have spark and that was the major issue for me. The ignition advance curve built in to the igniter box will be the real key.

I've been talking with a few of the fellas and there is a great interest in seeing what you come up with so hang in there my friend. We do have faith that you can pull something off and as anxiously awaiting.

Good luck with it my friend.

Cheers,
Spyug

Aaah nice work Spyug! I saw something in a thread subject about success, but haven't read up on it yet.

It'll definitely be interesting to see if the advance curve is still suitable for the 550, and fingers crossed on that one!

And don't worry, I'm hangin' in there with these HEI modules and I'll be persisting through to a resolution. My only issue right now is impatience waiting to get my exhaust sorted so I can resume testing...

Pete,
You may want to add a used Ignitor to your list. As you know by now they are hard to find due to their higher failure rate.

I am watching your thread and holding thumbs for that final confirmation that the HEI ignitor works correctly when you bike is rideable! And I think so are a few others as well.
Keep well.

Thanks Andre, I should've clarified OEM as new or used, but you're right that used OEM is definitely an alternative, even if it's proven to be a rather unreliable one.

There does definitely seem to be lots of interest in this, which is another driver to see it through to completion.

I found these on eBay. I know some people here have been looking for one.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=175775

Yeah seems to be always someone looking for an OEM ignitor these days

Always appreciate links being posted to them though just in case.

 

[Guest]

Ok, quick "non update" on this...

Bike is booked in for the exhast on 24th June, so I should have the bike back on about the 29/30th June, and the exhaust a further week or two later.

So, hopefully mid-July I can resume testing...

 

[Guest]

Bike went off to Tranzac today... hopefully in the next few weeks I can try again ray:

 

[spyug]

Keeping fingers crossed over here.

Cheers,
Spyug

 

[Guest]

Cheers Spyug! I got lots of things crossed...

 

[Briars]

Pete, it looks like I have the same problem as you. From what I have gathered we share the same part number on the igniter.

I have read all 16 post and most of it is over my head. Where are you at in your project to make or procure a par? I see you have done some testing.

I have looked at Lou's HEI adaptation for the Kawasaki but I am not sure it would work on our application. If it will I would go that route.

I know you have explored all this and was hoping you could update me to the available options without making it too technical.

Thanks

Edit, I saw you listed the dyna coils/igniter as an option but I do not see anything on their site for twins.

 

[Guest]

The Kawasaki one doesn't work on ours, which is why I'm trying a different setup with the transistors etc., and I need to wait for the exhaust to be done before trying again.

There should be a dyna for ours, but you need to use the coils too which makes it quite expensive.

I hope to have an update in a few weeks...