M
MechMessiah
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Thanks, but the all documentation didn't help.
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Thanks, but the all documentation didn't help.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
No luck with start-up
No luck with start-up
Well I got everything back together and tried to start it up but nothing. It seems to be the compression. I have virtually no compression from 3 out of 4 cylinders. #2 is the only one that's good at 130ish. I tried dry and wet with no real change so it seems like the valves are the issue.
I guess tomorrow I'll pull everything apart again. Is there any chance I'll be able to use the gaskets again or should I just order new ones now?
No luck with start-up
Well I got everything back together and tried to start it up but nothing. It seems to be the compression. I have virtually no compression from 3 out of 4 cylinders. #2 is the only one that's good at 130ish. I tried dry and wet with no real change so it seems like the valves are the issue.
I guess tomorrow I'll pull everything apart again. Is there any chance I'll be able to use the gaskets again or should I just order new ones now?
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Sorry for the troubles.
One comment: This part is incorrect..."To check the clearances between the Cam Lobes and the Valve Shims you need to have the Cam Lobe pointing straight up."
The proper way to position the cams is per the factory service manual method. The way you positioned the cams you have less clearance than you think you do. I'm not sure this could cause the drastically low compression but maybe.
One comment: This part is incorrect..."To check the clearances between the Cam Lobes and the Valve Shims you need to have the Cam Lobe pointing straight up."
The proper way to position the cams is per the factory service manual method. The way you positioned the cams you have less clearance than you think you do. I'm not sure this could cause the drastically low compression but maybe.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
Thanks.
As for the cam position though the service manual gives two potions for checking the clearance. The "A" position looks the same as pointing straight up to me. Either way I agree with you that it's unlikely to cause the compression issue.
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I was seeing those clearances on the valve spreadsheet and at .03 MM I consider them too TIGHT. If they arent at a minimum of .05 they arent loose enough far as I am concerned with my experiences. And remeber they were just lapped and havent fully seated yet, so a tad looser saves the rechecking proceedure in a week or so when it gets rough. my "ideal " clearance is .08 across the board when I do shims.
Secondly, be darn easy on cleaning the bucket wells. That drill deal will take a lot off really fast. The better way would have been by hand and even then be easy. Take too much off and the buckets are allowed to tilt due to out of specs wall clearances.
Secondly, be darn easy on cleaning the bucket wells. That drill deal will take a lot off really fast. The better way would have been by hand and even then be easy. Take too much off and the buckets are allowed to tilt due to out of specs wall clearances.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
Compression Problem Identified
Compression Problem Identified
Thanks for the advise and suggestions guys, but I already got it covered.
I got the top end disassembled again last night. It took a lot less time now that it isn't all covered in rust and grime. I'm really glad I didn't dilly dally with tearing it down because the problem was obvious as soon as I got it apart. The culprit was...
A BLOWN HEAD GASKET!
All things considered I think this is the best case scenario for the situation. The gasket was part of a Versah top end set I got off eBay and the torque wrench I used got returned the next day because it was just bad. I've definitely learned a lesson about using discount parts and tools now. I've already ordered the OEM replacements gaskets and I'll be looking for a quality torque wrench that's suited for motorcycle work.
At least this gives me a chance to finish up the gas tank that way I won't have to use this hodgepodge set up again.
Compression Problem Identified
Thanks for the advise and suggestions guys, but I already got it covered.
I got the top end disassembled again last night. It took a lot less time now that it isn't all covered in rust and grime. I'm really glad I didn't dilly dally with tearing it down because the problem was obvious as soon as I got it apart. The culprit was...
A BLOWN HEAD GASKET!
All things considered I think this is the best case scenario for the situation. The gasket was part of a Versah top end set I got off eBay and the torque wrench I used got returned the next day because it was just bad. I've definitely learned a lesson about using discount parts and tools now. I've already ordered the OEM replacements gaskets and I'll be looking for a quality torque wrench that's suited for motorcycle work.
At least this gives me a chance to finish up the gas tank that way I won't have to use this hodgepodge set up again.
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M
MechMessiah
Guest
Doing it by hand was not an option. I could only fit my pinky finger between the wall and the valve journal and even that was very awkward. I was concerned about that exact problem and went very slow. I also wasn't blasting it with the drill at full power. It was done very slowly and I stopped to checked the clearances often.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
General update 08/20/16
General update 08/20/16
My OEM replacement head gasket came in this week!
And it's useless. I've already contacted the retailer and they're sending a new one out, after it comes in off back order. So I'll have a bit of time to kill.
I did take the chance to double check the valves though. Now I wasn't doing this on the most level of surfaces but everything checks outs. The intake & exhaust ports were all still dry so once I get a good head gasket it should be a pretty straight forward rebuild.
General update 08/20/16
My OEM replacement head gasket came in this week!
And it's useless. I've already contacted the retailer and they're sending a new one out, after it comes in off back order. So I'll have a bit of time to kill.
I did take the chance to double check the valves though. Now I wasn't doing this on the most level of surfaces but everything checks outs. The intake & exhaust ports were all still dry so once I get a good head gasket it should be a pretty straight forward rebuild.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
General update 8/26/16
General update 8/26/16
I think today is the day I'll be able to try and start her up again. The replacement gasket came in and I've been putting a lot of time into the bike after work. Everything has gone much smoother this time around. Also not taking pictures during the whole thing has made it go a lot quicker.
Sense the tear down I have
That's everything I've done in the past 2 days. My plans for after work today are
And that's my plan. Hopefully it all goes well and I'll have a running engine tonight.
General update 8/26/16
I think today is the day I'll be able to try and start her up again. The replacement gasket came in and I've been putting a lot of time into the bike after work. Everything has gone much smoother this time around. Also not taking pictures during the whole thing has made it go a lot quicker.
Sense the tear down I have
- Checked the valves for leaks with gas in the combustion chamber.
- Replaced the base gasket and reinstalled cylinders. Also checked that the piston rings were still spaced properly.
- Replaced the head gasket and installed the head using a click-type torque wrench this time.
- Preformed the timing process.
- Preformed valve adjustment. All valve clearances are now between .07 - .04mm.
- Checked that valves were closing properly while hand cracking the engine.
- Installed valve gasket & cover, and torqued to specs.
- Installed exhaust system.
- Installed carbs, and connected throttle, choke, and breather hose.
That's everything I've done in the past 2 days. My plans for after work today are
- Install the battery.
- Run the starter motor without gas or plugs in the bike to circulate oil. May also use the chance to check compression.
- Install plugs and connect to coils.
- Hook up auxiliary gas tank to carbs (type used for carb syncing).
- Attempt to start.
- Hopefully tune idling setting.
And that's my plan. Hopefully it all goes well and I'll have a running engine tonight.
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M
MechMessiah
Guest
Good Compression!
Good Compression!
My compression is good!!!! All cylinders are above 130! I'm about to go get some gas and see if she'll start.
Good Compression!
My compression is good!!!! All cylinders are above 130! I'm about to go get some gas and see if she'll start.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
Start up!
Start up!
SHE STARTS!!!:triumphant::dancing:
It took a few tries playing with the throttle adjustment and choke to get her to start but once she was running I was able to get that sorted out and now she starts right up with no choke and idles around 1,100. There's still some tuning I need to do. When I would rev the engine everything would go fine until 3,000 then it would shoot up to 6,000ish and hang. I'll have to do some research on that one.
The only other issue I noticed was some exhaust leaking but I'm not concerned with that. I bought a 4-1 that I'm going to use with some studs to replace the stock bolts. However I wanted to get it running and tuned with stock parts first and I was worried about snapping the old stock bolts that are just being used temporarily. So I'm not too concerned with that. It was a bit too dark to tell if there was any oil leak, well a small one, nothing was spraying or gushing out.
Alright I'm done for the night. I'll be back at this on Sunday. In the meantime I'm having a beer... well another beer.
Start up!
SHE STARTS!!!:triumphant::dancing:
The only other issue I noticed was some exhaust leaking but I'm not concerned with that. I bought a 4-1 that I'm going to use with some studs to replace the stock bolts. However I wanted to get it running and tuned with stock parts first and I was worried about snapping the old stock bolts that are just being used temporarily. So I'm not too concerned with that. It was a bit too dark to tell if there was any oil leak, well a small one, nothing was spraying or gushing out.
Alright I'm done for the night. I'll be back at this on Sunday. In the meantime I'm having a beer... well another beer.
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M
MechMessiah
Guest
General update 09/22/2016
General update 09/22/2016
And it's back to not starting.
I got the hanging throttle problem fixed and also finished up the gas tank and installed it on the bike. Then I took the bike for a quick test ride. The carbs clearly still needed to be synced but she was starting and running. Now I was a little too excited to go for a test ride and forgot to check the petcock I rebuilt. The rebuild failed and the petcock still leaked. I realized the next day that I had forgot to check the petcock and then discovered the problem and removed the tank. The bad petcock was on the bike less than 24 hours.
After that I have not been able to get her to start again. I have tried to start the bike with the gas tank and petcock as well as with a hanging auxiliary tank both with the same negative results. I checked the plugs and inner walls of the intake boots for gas but it was hard to tell if any was present. The plugs were not "wet" with gas so it seems I may not be getting fuel to the combustion chamber. The float bowls are getting gas though.
At one point when trying to get her to start I removed the plug I had in the vacuum hose from the #2 carb and placed my finger over it. It had suction but it was not very strong. Is it suppose to have a strong pull or is it fine that it's weak?
As of now I have the carbs off and will recheck them. I will also check the compression again to be sure I didn't blow a head gasket again or something. And I suppose checking the ignition system wouldn't be a bad idea either.
General update 09/22/2016
And it's back to not starting.
I got the hanging throttle problem fixed and also finished up the gas tank and installed it on the bike. Then I took the bike for a quick test ride. The carbs clearly still needed to be synced but she was starting and running. Now I was a little too excited to go for a test ride and forgot to check the petcock I rebuilt. The rebuild failed and the petcock still leaked. I realized the next day that I had forgot to check the petcock and then discovered the problem and removed the tank. The bad petcock was on the bike less than 24 hours.
After that I have not been able to get her to start again. I have tried to start the bike with the gas tank and petcock as well as with a hanging auxiliary tank both with the same negative results. I checked the plugs and inner walls of the intake boots for gas but it was hard to tell if any was present. The plugs were not "wet" with gas so it seems I may not be getting fuel to the combustion chamber. The float bowls are getting gas though.
At one point when trying to get her to start I removed the plug I had in the vacuum hose from the #2 carb and placed my finger over it. It had suction but it was not very strong. Is it suppose to have a strong pull or is it fine that it's weak?
As of now I have the carbs off and will recheck them. I will also check the compression again to be sure I didn't blow a head gasket again or something. And I suppose checking the ignition system wouldn't be a bad idea either.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
General update 10/18/2016
General update 10/18/2016
So the bike is back together and running good, but not great. I got the inconsistent starting issue figured out and she starts up pretty easy now. The only times I have trouble starting her is on cold mornings.
The carbs still need a bit of tuning. I have no top end acceleration. Full open throttle just maintains speed. I didn't make any adjustments to the jet needle position when I rebuilt the carbs. The carbs have definitely been worked on by someone sense the factory as the caps over the mixture screws were already removed. She also stumbles off the line. I have yet to do any plug chops and I'm a bit rusty on my rich/lean symptoms but I think she's running rich. The main reason I say this is whenever the engine gets more air she runs better.
Even with the carbs still being out of sorts though the bike is running much better than when I bought it and I'm so happy I've still got time to ride before winter. Thanks again for all the help I've got here! Really appreciate it!!
General update 10/18/2016
So the bike is back together and running good, but not great. I got the inconsistent starting issue figured out and she starts up pretty easy now. The only times I have trouble starting her is on cold mornings.
The carbs still need a bit of tuning. I have no top end acceleration. Full open throttle just maintains speed. I didn't make any adjustments to the jet needle position when I rebuilt the carbs. The carbs have definitely been worked on by someone sense the factory as the caps over the mixture screws were already removed. She also stumbles off the line. I have yet to do any plug chops and I'm a bit rusty on my rich/lean symptoms but I think she's running rich. The main reason I say this is whenever the engine gets more air she runs better.
Even with the carbs still being out of sorts though the bike is running much better than when I bought it and I'm so happy I've still got time to ride before winter. Thanks again for all the help I've got here! Really appreciate it!!
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M
MechMessiah
Guest
General Update 06/01/2017
General Update 06/01/2017
Since the last post I've gotten the bike running much better. It still needs a little work but I feel likes it's almost just right. The bike was running lean, not rich. I adjusted the air mixture screws and that helped most of the issues. The outer cylinders needed to be turned out about 3/4 more than the inner two.
There's still no top end speed. In 5th the only way to accelerate is with gravity, and if I have to go uphill I lose speed. I'll have to do a plug read for full throttle to tell if I need to increase or decrease the main jet.
I finally installed the Mac 4-1 exhaust during the Memorial day weekend. I swapped the standard Suzuki exhaust bolts with studs as well. The new exhaust has a nice deep throaty sound. It is quieter than the stock though, and I kinda miss the higher pitched buzzing of the stock exhaust. I did notice the weight difference on the first ride after install.
I've got pics of most of the work I've done recently. Once I have some downtime I'll try to put them up.
General Update 06/01/2017
Since the last post I've gotten the bike running much better. It still needs a little work but I feel likes it's almost just right. The bike was running lean, not rich. I adjusted the air mixture screws and that helped most of the issues. The outer cylinders needed to be turned out about 3/4 more than the inner two.
There's still no top end speed. In 5th the only way to accelerate is with gravity, and if I have to go uphill I lose speed. I'll have to do a plug read for full throttle to tell if I need to increase or decrease the main jet.
I finally installed the Mac 4-1 exhaust during the Memorial day weekend. I swapped the standard Suzuki exhaust bolts with studs as well. The new exhaust has a nice deep throaty sound. It is quieter than the stock though, and I kinda miss the higher pitched buzzing of the stock exhaust. I did notice the weight difference on the first ride after install.
I've got pics of most of the work I've done recently. Once I have some downtime I'll try to put them up.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
Well life got kinda crazy for a bit and I didn't post anything for a few months so you haven't missed much.
The engine speed stays constant. If I'm in 5th and need to speed up I have to drop to 4th. 5th gear is like a cruising only state. But being in an area that's very hilly it kinda can't even do that.
M
MechMessiah
Guest
The best I can tell 6,000 is about the max RPM's I can get full throttle in 5th with level ground. Even if I rev up to say, 8,000 then go into 5th the engine gradually slows. The bike certainly feels like it could do more. Full throttle just doesn't feel like full throttle in 5th.
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