82'1100g

[don]

Well Allrighty.

When I drove the bike home from purchasing it, It had a lean exhaust backfire while warming up and a lazy throttle on initial twist, (by quite a bit. Like 1/16-1/8 turn). I'm figuring, ultrasonic the carbs and put new rubber in em' and I'll be on my way. Did that and was no furthur along than before. Still popped lean. Got into the airbox and found a K&N in there but no foam sealer on the part that seals against the carb side, and I think it was at least 2 shades blacker than the tires. Furthur investigation revealed no foam strips anywhere there were supposed to be. Washed the filter and installed plain old weather strip foam, like for your door in your house. Took a little 2 mile prelim ride then went for a nice 60-70 mile ride with my neighbor.

Now, it's not completely right, but it ran quite well. The only thing I noticed is that it gets weaker with harder throttle. It doesn't pull hard throught the full twist of the right hand, only the first bit, 1/2 or so. Without looking or doing anything since I got back from that ride with my neighbor, I would have to guess it's still a little lean. I didn't like the way the floats and needle/seats set up when I put it all back together. I think the springs in the needles are worn out or something. I'll check it all out later. For now............I can ride it around for another 2-3 weekends before my budy winches it into my basement with his quad for the winter. THEN we'll get after it.......................

Till my next ride on the 1100.............(My poor little 550 feels sooooooooo neglected.....)

 

[don]

Did an oil and filter change tonight with the good stuff you all reccomend, Rotell-tiller oil. Got everything done, filled it up to the "full" line, started it and let it run a minuit or so, turned it off ad let it set for about 5 min, checked the oil level again, topped it off, repeated till all was good, (this thing takes like a whole gallon of oil, my 550 only takes like 3 qts with a filter). Took it down to the end of the road, (1/8 mile), to get rid of that nasty condensation from the pipes. When I got back, I heard the most disturbing sound, ROD KNOCK !!!!!!! (Put, put, put, put, clunk/ding, put, put, put, clunk/ding, pu, put, put, clunk/ding).

Guess I'll be doing an engine rebuild over the winter, (between catching a billion perch and bass through the ice). Not what I had planned or hoped for, but what can I expect for the money I paid for it, $900, and I rode it home.

BTW,
Now that I have a shaftie, What the heck is Hypoid oil and where do I get it?

 

[midnightcafe]

BTW,
Now that I have a shaftie, What the heck is Hypoid oil and where do I get it?

It's gear oil for the shaft drive, you can buy it at any automotive store

 

[chiphead]

.....Took it down to the end of the road, (1/8 mile), to get rid of that nasty condensation from the pipes. When I got back, I heard the most disturbing sound, ROD KNOCK !!!!!!! (Put, put, put, put, clunk/ding, put, put, put, clunk/ding, pu, put, put, clunk/ding).

Guess I'll be doing an engine rebuild over the winter, (between catching a billion perch and bass through the ice). Not what I had planned or hoped for, but what can I expect for the money I paid for it, $900, and I rode it home.
....QUOTE]

I'm skeptical you have a rod knock. Sure, it's possible but these motors are not known for that. When you drained the oil did you see metal residue? I wouldn't pull the trigger on an engine rebuild without ruling everything else out first. Carbs out of synch will cause some pretty impressive weird engine noise. Tired clutch baskets or loose stator rotor also. How many miles on this thing?

 

[don]

Well I know for sure there is a clutch rattle and when I did the quickie carb thing I didn't break the rack down, I did them all together. I can check it out with the merury stics. As far as the oil, besides being black as coal, I didn't notice anything unusual. I took the timing cover off and "rocked" the motor over with a socket on the trigger bolt. I did hear/feel a little thunk, thunk, when I changed directions but don't know how it's supposed to feel to start with.

As far as mileage, no spedo cable and don't know for how long it was like that, but the odo says 18K and change.

(At work, gotta be quick and stealthy)

Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[don]

Here's a link to an upside down video of the bike running in my shed and the noise I'm hearing. Sorry for the upside down part, didn't think to change the camera settings before I recorded it.

You can hear the knock best toward the end of the video, right before I touched the camera to the motor and, well, let's just say the noise is rattly when you do that.

http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s350/donmod/1100G/?action=view&current=GOPR0008.mp4

 

[chiphead]

I could be wrong, but if the valve clearances are in spec that could be cam walk you're hearing. Once valve clearances are done do a mad synch on the carbs. Bet you the noise will disappear. If you've got time to kill synch the carbs before you tackle the valves and see if there is a difference. I'd still open it up and check the valves though, maybe over the winter.

I respectfully disagree with derwood. Should use hypoid.

 

[don]

Thanks for the input,

I'll do a synch this week on it and see what happens.

As for the whole gear oil thing, Hypoid is simply the gear design. The gear profile is exactly what's in the rear end of a car. I remember years ago people talking about hypoid oil but never undestood what they were talking about exactly. Now I know. It's just rear end gears, (ring and pinion, specificly the "swirl" of the gear design).

 

[chiphead]

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but you need to use hypoid oil.

"

Hypoid Oil Differences

<LI id=jsArticleStep1 itxtvisited="1">Particularly for manual transmission and similar constructs, hypoid gear oil is the recommended lubricant. It's a gearbox oil, just like others, but the ingredients are different. This type of gear oil is mixed with additives designed to increase its resistance to breakdown under high temperature and mechanical pressure produced by hypoid gearboxes.

Read more: What Is Hypoid Gear Oil? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5729620_hypoid-gear-oil_.html#ixzz11aE1BSeV​

 

[don]

Chiphead,

One of the same aticles I looked at. And true, you can not replace hypoid rated oil with plain old gear oil but as long as the oil is designed for a hypoid contoured gearset, (automotive ring and pinion), harmony will be granted.

 

[don]

Stopped into my local Zuk dealer today to pick up some parts and got to talk with the service mgr a bit. Did some investigating about my " rod knock " noise I'm so concerned about. As it turns out, the noise is coming from the top end without a doubt. Specificly, right under the breather cover. I'm guessing something to do with that idler wheeliebobber thing for the cam chain, I could feel the noise through the cam chain tensioner knob. I have not taken the valve cover off yet to check things out, but if anyone has any experience with problems with this thing, please educate me ..........

Thanks in advance.

And back to the oil thing..........

Straight cut gears........no wipe action.......no hypoid......standard gear lube
"Swirlie" cut gears........wipe action..........hypoid..........High pressure, (hypoid), lube

END

 

[Guest]

Might be a good idea to remove the cam chain tensioner & verify it's in good working order - rebuild it while it's out.

I'm guessing you know better, but just don't turn the crank while it's out.

 

[don]

Redid the seals/o-rings on the one for my 550, so yeah......I know.......parts flying evertwhere.......LOL .........Strong flippin' spring.....................

 

[Guest]

Redid the seals/o-rings on the one for my 550, so yeah......I know.......parts flying evertwhere.......LOL .........Strong flippin' spring.....................

Yes, been there, done that...

I was refering to the motor crank, turning it over (e.g, adjusting valves) while the tensioner is out could cause the timing chain to jump a tooth or 3.

 

[don]

Mike,

Yes I do know better than to turn the engine over without tension on the cam thain. Thanks for the heads up though. I'm sure more obvious things have been overlooked........

 

[Steve]

BTW,
Now that I have a shaftie, What the heck is Hypoid oil and where do I get it?

It's gear oil for the shaft drive, you can buy it at any automotive store

doesn't have to be hypoid, just gear oil

I respectfully disagree with derwood. Should use hypoid.

As for the whole gear oil thing, Hypoid is simply the gear design. The gear profile is exactly what's in the rear end of a car.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but you need to use hypoid oil.

..., you can not replace hypoid rated oil with plain old gear oil but as long as the oil is designed for a hypoid contoured gearset, (automotive ring and pinion), harmony will be granted.

for the sake of discussion .....I'll flog the horse....Hypoid gear lube is unnecessary because the final drive is not a hypoid gearset, it is not like a rwd car...

My manual says "Hypoid". My bike will get "hypoid". Put what you want in yours.

.

 

[don]

You guys really like this debate don't you.

The oil I put in both gearsets is API-GL-5, " Suitable for all high pressure gearing applications including HYPOID". I chose Lucas because it was the middle of the road as far as price. In our stock cars we used either Amile or Royal Purple. RP was $15.00+ per quart and the cheap stuff was $5.00 per quart, Lucas was $10.00 per quart.

You folks feel free to continue......my decision has been made..................

As always, thank you for your input.

 

[don]

article

article

one last note about the oil............

Can someone explain the difference between Hypoid and Non-Hypoid
>oil?
"Hypoid" is not really a question of oil, so much as a question of
gearcutting. Old (1920's) rear axles used straight bevel gears to form
the crownwheel and pinion. These had two disadvantage, the pinion
shaft meets the crownwheel on its central axis, and the straight cut
gears are noisy. By using a more complex "hypoid" gear tooth shape (if
you look at a pinion, the teeth appear twisted) these problems can be
addressed. The more gradual engagement of the teeth along their length
reduces noise. By careful design of the geometry the pinion can be
made to mesh _below_ the axis of the crownwheel. As the centre height
of the crownwheel is fixed by the wheel height, this allows the
propshaft to be lowered relative to the car body, giving a clearer
floorpan and lower centre of gravity for better cornering. Hypoid
bevels are now universal in this application.
Because of the sliding contact that hypoid gears make, their
hydrodynamic contact pressure is higher. To be suitable for use with
hypoid gears, a lubricant must be capable of resisting high pressures.
Oils with "EP" ratings (Extreme Pressure) such as EP90 are required.
Some brands describe themselves as "hypoid" instead, a term which is
synonymous with EP. GL-5 is a formal API standard for this type of oil
(comparable to MIL-L-2105B/C/D)
> The book is telling me to use Non-Hypoid gear oil 80W or
>80W/90 on the manual transmission and GL-5 hypoid gear oil 90W on
>the rear axle.
A manual transmission won't usually contain hypoid gears, so it
doesn't need an EP oil. Rare exceptions are those transaxles where the
crownwheel and gearbox share the same lubricant. Although an EP oil is
more complex to manufacture, it has no disadvantages when used in
instances where the EP attribute isn't strictly required. Manual
steering boxes and other slow-moving oil-containing components are
often filled with 90 weight oil. It's usual to buy EP90 because that's
what the axle requires, then use the same oil for all other
components.
There's little practical difference between 80 & 90 weights. I fill
everything with EP80 and I've never had a problem.
There's an increasing trend amongst manufacturers to reduce the number
of different lubricant types required. My own gearbox (5 speed Range
Rover) runs on ATF, but 20W/50 engine oil or EP90 axle oil are equally
permissible.
--
Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk
The Internet has given us all mountains of information at our fingertips.
...and all most people want to do is pick their noses with them.

 

[don]

I'm Surprized none of you cought on that my description of my cam chain stuff was wrong.

When I had written all of that I was going by my Clymer book and I hadn't taken the valve cover off yet. When I did remove it, I did not find that "wheelie" idler thing, I found a simple plastic guide block that rides under the cam chain. I believe that is what's making all the noise. I don't know if this thing is supposed to be spring loaded or "snap" down into place, or what, but it was like half way. I think the poor/lack of tune gives the motor a little skip at lower RPM's and the cam chain is "knocking" that bottom chain guide around. My 83 550 doesn't have anything under the cam chain at all, I'm thinking, does this thing even need to be there? Has anyone ever removed it and ran it that way?

While in there, I stuck the feeler gages to the valves....... sheesh do I have some work ahead of me. Out of 8 I think 2 were ok. Some tight and some loose. I'm thinking of having the valve seals and seats done over the winter, so all new shims will be in order anyway.

If I'm making any sence, no sence, complete sence, please advise on a direction for me to go.

And no I have not checked the carb synch or taken the cam chain tensioner out to look at it yet. Definitly on the list to do though. I know both can have a big effect on all of this.

Thanks,

Don

 

[don]

A PS to my last post, (#41),

Plese keep in mind that all of my harf arsed fixes are simply a means to figure out if I have purchased a nag or a stalion without going hog wild with the money over the winter. (Man I crack myself up! I shoulda' been a dang farmer! ...... LOL)