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85 GS1150EF starter clutch pics anyone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 1150newb
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1150newb

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Hi all, I collected a 85 GS1150EF in pretty clean condition. All fairings complete. Was told it hasn't run in 12 yrs. Came from a out of business bike shop (owner passed). Got it home, topped up with oil and put power to it. Lights up etc. Hit the starter button, clicks at solenoid. Figured it was that. While waiting for replacement I took off all the fairings and then found a real issue. The bolts on the left side engine cover were all loose (didn't see all this with the lower fairings on...d-oh). So pulled the cover. Stator is in place but no flywheel/rotor/magneto assembly at all. Missing. Downsizer gear was still there (the dual sprocket that engages with the starter). I ordered a manual to put this back together and also have a used rotor/mag. that came with the big sprocket on the back of it. Is this the starter clutch? If I have a flywheel/rotor assembly like described, is it complete for install? Prior to manual arrival I was hoping someone has some pics of what I should see when I pull that engine cover offer. Or what the guts of that starter clutch/magneto assembly looks like in real world, not a exploded fiche. Anyone? Thanks.
 
The flywheel/magnet rotor assembly is backed up by the large sprocket. Be aware that if you slide the sprocket out of the rotor assembly, things will start flying.

Inside the hub are three spring-loaded rollers that comprise the starter clutch. Since you will likely just see a small pile of parts when it all flies apart, there is a spring, a sleeve that slides over the spring and a large roller that goes into each of three cavities on the inside of the rotor. Slide the sprocket into that assembly while rotating it so the rollers are pushed toward the springs. When it is all together, note that the sprocket will rotate freely in one direction, but lock solidly in the other. Hold it all together while sliding it onto the crank and bolting it in place.

.
 
Well with Mr. Murdoch's photo, this is the other side, with three springs, rollers, and pins hiding in the middle above copper shim
 
Thanks all. I'll pull my cover and take out or inspect the rotor assembly I got used. I do remember when I got it, the fellow (trust worthy) at the salvage yard did he did pull it out of a complete engine and did zip tie the assembly together similar to steve murdoch's ebay link pic. It wasn't sitting on shelf or anything. Since I've not pulled one of these, I'm going to assume they come off as a whole unit and only spring apart when removing the sprocket after removal as Steve typed. I think I've got a complete unit.
Here's my intentions. I'm making some leaps here so bear with my message and please correct me as you will.
As mentioned, no history, not running. Have power. While waiting for the starter clutch/flywheel assembly I pulled the spark plugs, squirted some oil down the holes and turned the shaft that the starter clutch/flywheel assembly goes on. (that's ok right?). All the pistons moved (I used wooden shishkabob sticks with graduated marks on them in the spark plug holes) when turning the nut a few revolutions. The wooden sticks would all move up or down accordingly. So, not seized? I also took out the carb bank, disassembled them, cleaned the jets and drained any left over gas. Put in a known good starter solenoid. I wanted to give this bike the best chance I could to turn over not worried about spark yet.
When I got the starter clutch/flywheel assembly I put it in as I thought how it goes. The sprockets all lined up etc. Put power to the bike jumped from a car battery so should have plenty of juice. Turned key, run switch on, pulled in clutch and.....ruuuuuup, ruuuuuuuup, tick. Pause. Reset. And again the rrruuup. Very, very sluggish to turn over. And this with no spark plugs in so no resistance. With a car battery it should be cranking like its nobody's business, no?
I think starter or the starter clutch (be it the unit or my installation). Is there anything else directly related that will cause the very sluggish 'try to turn over'? I pulled the starter and bench tested it. It spun like I believe it should. So lets assume starter is good. Now what?
Update: aaaand.....I see there has been some damage to the signal generator cover on the right side of the engine. I get the 'no spark' concept of what this assembly does but at this time I just want to crank/turn it over. Would anything related to this assembly cause my sluggish turn over sequence?
I know you may be thinking "I bought a thrashed dog". I don't believe so and I'm not into it for a lot of cash and right now other than the starter clutch assembly so it's really just trouble shooting and my time. Maybe at some point I'll bail but not yet.
 
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The starter brushes inside the starter motor may have seen better days or the commutator is blackened from worn brushes giving a weak turn over.
stockers.com has complete brush rebuild kits for about $30 bucks American.
Hopefully the car battery is used with the car OFF.

There is a copper washer not shown in the ebay pic that fits behind the large gear on the crankshaft, where that recessed area of the gear is facing in the ebay pic.
Might be a better idea to use otherside to turn the crank, maybe worth a touch more oil down the sparkplug holes and few revolutions of the crank to free up rings that may be sticking after 12 years being dormant.
 
Found a picture of the washer, seen behind roller bearing.
All the wear on the cases is from previous SC failures.
 
thanks for the reply and input Carter. I'm pull the assembly out tonight. I don't recall a copper washer so that's one thing. Yes I'll use the right side generator bolt and for sure more oil down the holes. And maybe I'll bite on the starter rebuild kit just the same. It's not a lot of money for piece of mind. Pardon my ignorance but can a starter spin on the bench but still not have the 'umpt' to turn the engine over? It did spin what I thought was a satisfactory rpm but maybe it was not.
Also yes vehicle not running.
I'm only into this bike and parts thus far for $375.00 US so I've got some room yet to put a $ into it before I pull the chute and sell it for parts. Hope the pics upload. Its a fairly complete bike which is why I bit on it.
 

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Another shot. A scuff and missing mirror on the right side but all in all the paint is very good. I say 'fairly complete' because what you can't see is the color matched seat mouldings that attach to the passenger seat are missing so I'll have to source those if I get it running. Original tool kit still intact.
 

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1150newb said:
thanks for the reply and input Carter. I'm pull the assembly out tonight. I don't recall a copper washer so that's one thing. Yes I'll use the right side generator bolt and for sure more oil down the holes. And maybe I'll bite on the starter rebuild kit just the same. It's not a lot of money for piece of mind. Pardon my ignorance but can a starter spin on the bench but still not have the 'umpt' to turn the engine over? It did spin what I thought was a satisfactory rpm but maybe it was not.
Also yes vehicle not running.
I'm only into this bike and parts thus far for $375.00 US so I've got some room yet to put a $ into it before I pull the chute and sell it for parts. Hope the pics upload. Its a fairly complete bike which is why I bit on it.
Click to expand...

So you know there is about $1000 in the motor if in good shape.
 
So confirmed no copper washer. One on order. Would that act as a spacer for correct teeth alignment? Have starter rebuild kit on the way too. Turned the pistons multiple times today whilst squirting oil down the spark plug holes. now the waiting game.
 
I assume you have the rotor puller tool to get the rotor off again (30mm)
Not sure if you mentioned having a rotor on when purchased or not and bought one second hand.
 
yes have both puller and rotor. Just waiting on copper washer then I'll pull the assembly. Likely have the starter brushes replaced by then.
 
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ok, got starter and starter clutch assembly all back together and installed. plugs all pulled for less resistance, more oil down cylinders. Power to battery, lights up as before. Hit starter... cranks... mmmm better but believe it should be spinning and pushing pistons like a devil. Or not? I have no comparable as to what I should expect. As mentioned the pistons have been dormant for a dozen+ years and following Carter's suggestion of a bit more oil I think I've put sufficient amount and did turn the crank manually a number of times, my question now is "when powered, will 'sticky' pistons still move albeit sluggishly?" is that what I'm experiencing? or is there still something else that is not getting enough power to the starter and/or starter clutch to really move the pistons? I guess I'm asking is " once the pistons break loose (if stuck) shouldn't they just start pumping and slosh oil etc and loosen up?" I'm not sure a compression test will tell me anything with these slow moving pistons. thoughts?
 
Assuming it is not seized , battery is good and is turning over then sounds like the starter is dragging.
 
A long shot, but hopefully no washers are on the idle gear engaging starter motor.
Not saying you have them, but I made the mistake of putting them there, being a former 80 1100ET owner.
For whatever reason the 1100's had 2 washers, the 1150 none.
That might cause sluggish turnover.

Petcock is on Pri facing 3oclock and full choke with no throttle when attempting to start?
Throwing out possibilites is all.
 
Startergate.
Early on, I bench tested the original. It spun. But no point of reference. Spinning and 'spinning real good' could be two different things. I figured it was good. I put it in and tried to spin and move the pistons. that was what prompted my first post; the veeerrrryyy sluggish movement of the pistons. What should a good starter spin like? Both on or off the bike?
While waiting on the rebuild kit I picked up another used starter (from a GS1150, at $60 Cdn it didn't cost much, reputable dealer, he bench tested it: good (???)). So I now have two starters. I held the original starter in my hands and I could 'turn' the splined end with little effort (note: not 'spin'. By spin I mean grab the splines and turn it and let go and see if it continues to spin). I took the second starter and it too turned with my hands with even less effort than the original (this one is now in the bike and hence I cannot confirm right now if it 'spun'. I'm going to say 'No, it did not'.). Because the second starter turned easier I assumed this starter was a good or better starter than the original, perhaps even normal. I then installed it, put starter clutch etc all together, pulled plugs, and as mentioned bike cranked better than original test but still sluggish. What should the starter splined end spin like in my hands? Can I assume that both these starters are marginally functional but no where near optimal? I now have the rebuild kit. I'm likely answering my own question, but should I install the kit and see what the rebuilt starter spins like?
This was a long way of asking the forum how should that splined end feel by hand?
Also I should do a voltage test; cranking volts at battery and cranking volts at starter to see what the difference is. <1v or >1v.
 
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If the brushes are worn, doubt that would have any effect on spinning.
Clean commutator, lube bearing install brushes, run it, see what happens.
Might be worth checking the oil sight glass to make sure the carbs aren't dumping fuel past the float needles into the crankcase.
 
Silly question but are you sure it's cranking slowly and sluggishly? Do you have experience of other bikes in this regard?

It may be that you are chasing your tail and it's all good to go.

See if it fires.

Greetings
 
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