A home time adventure.

[Anonymous]

What a journey home! There was an accident so the police closed the road and diverted traffic along a route I don't know. Eventually I came to a road I recognised -single track, through a forest,unlit and with no road markings. On a tight bend I lost sight of the road and slammed on the brakes. I ended up on the wrong side of the road, just short of a ditch. I also stalled badly. I tried to re-start the bike only to find that the battery was completely dead.
I pushed the bike a few yards and then found myself on a hill. I managed to jump start the bike. Everything seemed ok except that the headlight was very dim (bit like me). A mile from home, I stalled again. Just managed to push start the bike but this time I had no headlights at all. I rode the mile home very slowly and very illegally.
What was it about stopping suddenly and stalling that drained the battery?
Is it just a case of re-charging the battery (which I'm just about to do) or is there something that needs fixing?

Roger

 

[redliner1973]

If you have not been having charging issues before this ride, i would suggest that during your suden stoppage, you moved the battery enough in its holder to loosen a cable. A simular thing happened to me after hitting a bump, whole bike died, nothing worked. checked connections to battery and found even though it didn't look loose, I put a wrench on the battery Negative cable and turned the screw almost a full turn. Bike came right up and haven't had a prob since. try thre first.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Tim.
Nope, it's not the battery connections - they're both tight. I charged the battery and now I have my headlight, indicators and dash lights back. However, the ignition is dead. I've changed all the fuses with no effect.
If I lay a screwdriver across the starter solenoid, the bike starts.
I think you're probably right - something came loose when I stopped suddenly (the first rear wheel wheelie of my life) but there's nothing obvious. However, I still wonder if the problem with the ignition is the same problem that caused the battery to flatten or whether whatever caused the battery to flatten caused another, separate problem which is affecting the ignition. Any suggestions?
Another problem here is that I don't have any electrical testing equipment or the knowledge to use it.

Roger

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

check the sidestand switch and the clutch switch

 

[Dink]

The Estimable Mrs Smith
Are you aware that your website link does not work?
Dink

 

[Anonymous]

The Estimable Mrs Smith
Are you aware that your website link does not work?
Dink

Nope, I just tried it and it's fine - must have been a glitch. Thanks for looking though.

Roger

 

[Anonymous]

a home time adventure

a home time adventure

If your bike starts when you jump the solenoid, my Clymer manual wiring diagram for the GS750 TZ says that starting problem is in the starter button, clutch switch, solenoid itself, or the wiring between. The kickstand switch is not a part of that circuit. The dead battery sounds like a charging system problem which is unrelated to the starter not working when you press the button. Check all bullet connectors in the headlight bucket and under the side panels to see if one or more of them came apart during the jolt. The wiring diagram shows that one of the alternator stator wires runs through the same connector cluster as starter button and the engine kill switch. That cluster is probably found in the headlight bucket. It may have been jarred loose or suffering some corrosion. If you feel adventurous, you can buy a cheap multimeter for under $20. They a fairly easy to learn to use and are invaluable for diagnosing problems like this. Myself or one of the other people on this forum would be happy to explain how to use it. Once you understand how your bike works you no longer have to be afraid of it and can love it all the more. Good luck.

Junkman

 

[Anonymous]

MRS SMITH WOULD YOU POST THE LINK FOR YOUR WEBSITE AGAIN, I WANT TO LINK YOU TO MY LINKS PAGE UNLESS YOU OBJECT TO ME DOING THAT.

 

[Anonymous]

From checking around this site and talking to various people I'm pretty sure the problem is in the starter button or the kill switch. Tomorrow will be my first chance to check the bike over properly.

Roger

 

[Anonymous]

a home time adventure

a home time adventure

Roger,

Before you start tearing things apart, I suggest that you try spraying WD-40 in around the starter button. This may wash off grime that is preventing proper contact within the switch. It could be the simple solution. Remember If you are able to start your bike by jumping the solenoid, it means that the kill switch is OK. The power to the starter button branches off between the kill switch and the ingition coils (after the kill switch). The engine won't run if the kill switch is not carrying current. The only things after this are the starter button, the clutch switch (if it is still connected), the solenoid itself, and the wire connections. A quick way to see if the solenoid is working is to bypass the starter button and the clutch switch by running a wire from the positive post of the battery to the green with white stripe wire on the solenoid. This sould activate the solenoid. Good luck and let us know what happens.

Junkman

P.S. You would do well to get a wiring diagram for the bike before gettting in too deep. It will greatly reduce the confusion. Your local dealer will probably run you a copy.

 

[Anonymous]

MRS SMITH WOULD YOU POST THE LINK FOR YOUR WEBSITE AGAIN, I WANT TO LINK YOU TO MY LINKS PAGE UNLESS YOU OBJECT TO ME DOING THAT.

No problem, here's the link again:
www.patrick.org.uk/tems.html

It's important to include the full .html (rather than .htm)otherwise the link won't work.
Cheers

Roger

 

[Anonymous]

Junkman
Thanks for your posts. I'll certainly try WD40. If that fails, I'm hoping it's something pretty obvious in the starter button.
I checked the clutch switch the other evening and it's clearly been by-passed some time ago because the wires are all taped up. That helps narrow it down. I'll try the solenoid test too.
I do own a multimeter but frankly don't know how to use it. There are 3 things in life that, no matter how hard I try, I can't understand for more than a couple of minutes. These are tax, pensions and electricity. My views on these are "necessary evil", "depressing" and "hey, magic!" Looking at the wiring diagram in my Clymer manual just seems to make it worse! On the basis that electricity and ignorance don't mix, I'll just hope it's something obvious.
I'll let you know the results.
Roger

 

[Anonymous]

A home time adventure

A home time adventure

Don't be discouraged. Electricity isn't as difficult to understand as you might think, especially in relatively simple applications such as this. Yes the wiring diagrams can be quite intimidating. If you think of current flowing through a wire as water flowing through a garden hose you have brought it from the realm of the mystical to the physical. The voltage is like the water pressure and the amperage is the quanity of current and in a garden hose would be dependant on the diameter of the hose.

If your clutch switch has been bypassed and taped up that may be where your problem is. What is under the tape may have come loose. The problem may be what is termed in the healthcare field as being iatrogenic (meaning that the problem is caused by previous human intervention).

The solenoid may appear to be a mysterious black box, but it is simply an electromagnetic switch. Large current flow produces heat in a small wire or switch. The amount of current required to turn the starter motor is so great that it would very quickly melt your handlebar starter button and the wires leading up to it, so the solenoid acts as a heavy duty switch between the battery and the starter motor. Inside of the solenoid is an electromagnet (activated by a light current through the starter button). The electromagnet physically moves a relatively heavy strip of copper across the connection between the starter motor and the battery. The cables between the battery and the starter motor are heavy enough to carry the high current, so no meltdown occurs.

Because you had sudden onset of starting failure and charging system / battery failure at the same time I am still suspect of the only common connection between the two. If you lok on your wiring diagram you will notice that just below the starter button is a heavy black stripe with wires running into it. This represents a multiple connector. The red/white and the green/white wires going into the bottom of the black strip are from the alternator. They are connected by a red/white wire on top.

Junkman

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, it's absolutely, 100%,definitely the solenoid....I think. I sprayed WD40 all through the starter button unit but with no effect. I then checked inside the headlight housing. No wires broken or any loose connectors. I then took the starter button/kill switch unit apart. It all seemed clean, shiny and with good connections.
I checked the taped up clutch switch connection. That all seemed ok.
I bought some 5 amp cable (Max watts at 12v=69w) (OK?) and connected one end to the positive terminal on the battery and touched the green/yellow connection on top of the solenoid with the other end- nothing happened.
Have I got this right? - putting a screwdriver across the terminals of the solenoid is equivalent to the movement of the heavy copper strip inside the solenoid across the connection between the starter motor and the battery? If the screwdriver works but the starter button doesn't (and all the other connections on the way are ok) then the problem must be the solenoid?
I woke up in the middle of the night and realised something about all this that I hadn't considered before. When I first tried to re-start the bike after stalling it, the starter button at least tried to work. The reason the bike wouldn't start was that the battery had drained. However, after I got the bike push-started, the starter button no longer did anything. So, the two problems of battery draining and starter button not working didn't occur at exactly the same time. Could the business of push starting the bike somehow have damaged the solenoid?

Roger

 

[Anonymous]

No, push starting the bike will not damage the solenoid. But, It sounds like a series of related events.

If jumping the green/white wire from the solenoid with the POS live wire from the battery does not activate the starter but, jumping the starter across the large terminals on the solenoid does activate the starter, it is the solenoid that is malfunctioning. When jumping the green/white wire however, make certain that you are touching it to the battery-side terminal on the solenoid and not the starter-side terminal. If you are sure it is the solenoid that is at fault, it may be possible to repair it by tearing it apart and cleaning up the contacts that the copper bar makes with the the heavy cable terminals. I have done this before with good success. If you are going to throw the solenoid away anyway it is worth the try if you feel adventurous. Before you do that though, it would be prudent to check the rest of that circuit to make sure that the the juice is getting through to the solenoid.

You can do this by taking your multimeter and turning the dial to the DC volts mode. Use the scale that is higher that 12. On mine it is 50. On yours it may be different. Ground the black lead of the multimeter somewhere onto the motor or frame. Make sure the ground is good. I usually do this by putting a little scratch in the metal with the tip of the probe and putting the tip into the scratch. Next, put the red lead of the multimeter into the green/white wire that goes into the wire harness (not the one that goes to the solenoid. ). Now, if you turn on the ignition and press the starter button the needle on the multimeter should deflect up to about 12 volts. If it does, the continuity of that circuit is OK and the solenoid is still suspect. If it doesn't, there is a problem with the current getting through to the solenoid. Solve the starting problem first. Worry about the charging problem later.

The solenoid problem may have been caused by trying to start the bike with a low battery. This could cause burning of the contacts in the solenoid. While you have the multimeter out, do a voltage test on your battery. If the battery is fully charged the voltage across the battery terminals should be 12 volts DC or greater. Leave the multimeter on the same setting. With the ignition OFF, put the black lead on the NEG (-) terminal of the battery and the red lead on the POS (+) lead of the battery. If the reading is less thaan 12 volts (lets say around 10) the battery is no good.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again.
I don't quite understand the bit about the Starter Side/Battery Side of the solenoid. On top of the solenoid at the front right is the terminal to which the black cable connects. At back left is the terminal for the red cable. Front middle is where the green/yellow wire is soldered on. To test it I connected a wire to the positive terminal of the battery and, with the ignition on, touched the bare end on the point where the green/yellow wire connects. Was that correct?
I've ordered a new solenoid anyway which I hope to have by tomorrow. Can't easily run the other tests you suggested because I've removed the solenoid in preparation. As I said, I had a good look at all the connectors and wires and they all seem OK. I was really surprised at how clean and secure the connections in the starter button are. From what you and other people have said, it looks like it can't be much other than the solenoid that's wrong.
I'll let you know what happens.

Roger

 

[Anonymous]

a home time adventure

a home time adventure

Sounds OK. The red cable is directly from the battery. The black cable goes to the starter motor. You could have activated the solenoid by simply by touching the green/white wire on the solenoid directly to the red cable. What you did is fine. It just requires an extra piece of wire.

Like I said in the previous post: The bad starter could have been caused by a low battery. The battery may be low because it is old and degenerated (like me) or because the charging system is faulty and not keeping the battery topped up. So, while you are waiting for the new solenoid to arrive check the status of your battery. First ensure that the fluid level in the battery is between the indicator marks for each cell. If not top up with distilled water (not tap water). If you see a white mineral type build up in any of the cells the battery is probably no good. If you have (or can borrow) a battery charger, charge the battery fully. Use the 12 volt, low amp (2 amp) setting on the charger for about 24 hrs. Remove the battery from the charger. Now get out your trusty multimeter, set it to DC volts mode and to the next range greater than 12 volts. Put the black lead of the multimeter on the NEG terminal of the battery and the red lead on the POS terminal. The reading should be about 12.5 Volts. If the reading is around 10 volts or lower, one or more cells of the battery is bad. This condition kills starters (see other post: "bad battery fry starter"). If the battery seems OK, the problem could very well be with the charging system. This is a weak point with these Suzukis. You can check it out by using your multimeter in a series of tests. These test are covered quite well in "the stator papers" near the bottom of the "in the garage" page of this website. You will need a running bike however to do the tests.

Good luck!

Junkman

 

[Anonymous]

I have to admit that I haven't checked the battery for a long while. It's almost exactly a year old. Until the other night, I hadn't had any charging problems - at least not since I had a new alternator fitted - again almost exactly a year ago. Mind you, I tend to charge up the battery once a week in the cold weather so I might not notice a problem as soon as I otherwise might. The battery took a full 12 hours to charge the other night - it hasn't been that flat since I first bought it and charged it up for the first time.

Roger

 

[Anonymous]

I control the Beast - for now

I control the Beast - for now

It was the solenoid.

Roger

 

[Anonymous]

Roger,

The world is getting smaller.
You have Motorbike Toronto listed on your Website. I live 5 minutes from that shop.

Roman.