A terrible shock

[Roostabunny]

Can anyone describe what "bad" shocks will feel like?

Also any static tests that I can do to see how bad off I am?

m not averse to replacing them, but I want to understand a little better how it'll change things so that I can fully appreciate the difference.

I'd ask the same thing about forks.

Keep in mind, this is my first bike, which is why I have no basis for comparison. :?

Thanks!

 

[twr1776]

Are they the OEM shocks? If so you do not need to look at them. They are bad and need replacing.

 

[posplayr]

OK my seat of the pants feel

OK my seat of the pants feel

I have a 1981 GS750 that I just swapped out the stock shock for a set of used Hagons from ebay. Note I had previously swapped out the front fork springs and used 50:50 15 wt and 10W40 oil. Small preload as indicated by the old spring stack height. I have not really measured the static height but it feels pretty good.

On the back I had the stock fully chrome one's set to teh next to the stiffest spring preload and the highest #4 damping setting (turn the top of the shock)

The bike seemed to work pretty well on some slow/smooth twisties. However at speed +55 mph there was an uneasiness going down the freeway. Small bounces cause the bike (rear end) to float kind of side to side and big bumps would almost cause a minor cross up. Basically you have to have a death wish to stay about 65 mph.

At slower speeds, the rear felt like it was constantly bottoming and it actually made my rear a little tired from absorbing these shocks.

After changing the rears, I on getting to the Freeway from my house I immediately noticed that the bump which typically made me cringe a little because of the posterior stress, I did not even notice and the rear stayed firm but floated over those bumps.

On the freeway, I immediately jumped up over 65 mph and felt more confident and secure that previously at 50 mph. The bike just tracks better as any road undulations don't start the rear suspension springing up and down or side to side. Even a little of this motion is pretty scary as just one bit larger bump in the road can have you totally crossing up.

Basically the better shocks/springs are more of a safety issue than a comfort issue. At freeway speeds the old suspension is dangerous. I'm still working on my GS1100E but now I'm much more motivated to buy some nice chrome Ikons for my GS750.

I just posted some pic from last weekend in this thread. I just rode out to get some stainless hardware and with the rear shocks I fell confident ridding in the fast lane at 70-75 where I only have to watch by back and right side. Previously I would go 55 in the slow lane and have to watch left,right and center. Basically I did NOT like or feel very comfortable at 50 mph +. Some $80 used Hagons changed that. I'm looking for Ohlins for my GS1100E

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=772705#post772705


Posplayr

 

[Big T]

Can anyone describe what "bad" shocks will feel like?

Also any static tests that I can do to see how bad off I am?

m not averse to replacing them, but I want to understand a little better how it'll change things so that I can fully appreciate the difference.

I'd ask the same thing about forks.

Keep in mind, this is my first bike, which is why I have no basis for comparison. :?

Thanks!

If they've never been replaced, cough up the dough, you won't believe the difference!
Post a picture of your current shocks so we can identify them.
Most people prefer going to stiffer fork springs, like Progressive, for a more controlled ride in front.

 

[Nessism]

Simple test, sit of the bike with both wheels on the ground. Balance for long enough to lift your butt a good bit above the seat and then throw your weight back down. The rear suspension will compress but pay attention to how fast it comes back up (rebound damping). If the rear end springs up quickly, your shocks should be replaced.

Sad fact is that Suzuki really cheaped out on the stock shocks on the GS bikes, particularly the small bikes that didn't have rebound damping adjustment. At least with damping adjustment the damping can be ramped up to prolong their life some. My old 450 shocks were pure junk when I got the bike with only 12k miles.

Good luck.

 

[Jd Powell]

Are they the OEM shocks? If so you do not need to look at them. They are bad and need replacing.

While this is often true, I've ridden a few that still had good (for 80's technology) shocks. When the shocks blow out they lose their damping effect and will feel very springy. If the rod in the center is rusty they're shot. As that buggers the seals up. Once they start leaking they're toast.

As for the forks, they should move smoothly through their travel.
You should not feel them bottom out at any point while riding.
If you hold the front brake while standing over the bike (parked)
bouncing your weight upndown on the bars they should freely move 3-5 inches (depends on how heavy you are) 6 inches is max travel you should not get this much motion. Movement should feel controled (not like a pogostick)

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

I had a set Of Works shocks, were leaking bad. Sent them to Works -- I was told over the phone that the housing was cracked ???????, not rebuildable. :-( I should have spent the extra $20 and had them shipped back to me so that I could see for myself. They wanted $420
for a new set

 

[Roostabunny]

This is great thanks! Nothin like a little perspective.

OK, so the bumpiness was obvious, but I know that nerves in less-than-perfectly-smooth turns and a slight "squrimy" feeling on road undulations is also related. Now I can't wait to get this sorted!

So, speaking of getting... here's what I had in mind. I know the word on the street is not to cheap out on suspension, but I'm on a pretty extreme budget, so here's what I'm thinking.

First off, the $89 Emgo shocks from CRC are looking pretty tempting - not fancy, but I'm hoping they're at least better than the OEM and 500% better and safer than my 26-year-old slinkies. (if you follow the shock link, you'll need to scroll down to see the 335mm eye-to-eye model that fits my '81 GS850) I'm over 200lbs, so I'm thinking the "heavy duty" designation is OK.

Secondly, I haven't touched the forks since I bought the bike, and I know they need attention. I want to buy a set of Progressive springs, but in the interest of the budget I'm considering the shorten-the-spring-and-use-a-spacer-trick I read about here on GSR. Obviously fresh fork oil is a must, and I'll probably replace the seals while I'm at it.

Ideally, I'd be out $100 for the rears and $40 for seals and oil in front, then save up for the front springs.

 

[robertob]

First off, the $89 Emgo shocks from CRC are looking pretty tempting - not fancy, but I'm hoping they're at least better than the OEM and 500% better and safer than my 26-year-old slinkies. (if you follow the shock link, you'll need to scroll down to see the 335mm eye-to-eye model that fits my '81 GS850) I'm over 200lbs, so I'm thinking the "heavy duty" designation is OK.

I have those, they're OK. Better than blown out stockers but mine fade badly after a good hard run over bumpy pavement.

Secondly, I haven't touched the forks since I bought the bike, and I know they need attention. I want to buy a set of Progressive springs, but in the interest of the budget I'm considering the shorten-the-spring-and-use-a-spacer-trick I read about here on GSR. Obviously fresh fork oil is a must, and I'll probably replace the seals while I'm at it.

Are your seals leaking? If not, you don't need to replace them.

The shortened spring trick works great (that's what I did with my CB450) but go slow and flatten the end of the spring when you're done. If you go too far the spring will be too short to compress the entire distance of fork travel. Then you bottom out all the time and it's worse than a soft stock spring with more travel.

 

[Roostabunny]

The shortened spring trick works great (that's what I did with my CB450) but go slow and flatten the end of the spring when you're done. If you go too far the spring will be too short to compress the entire distance of fork travel. Then you bottom out all the time and it's worse than a soft stock spring with more travel.

Good deal - any tips on where to start? 2"?

I'll have to bust out the camera when I do this.

 

[bwringer]

While this is often true, I've ridden a few that still had good (for 80's technology) shocks. When the shocks blow out they lose their damping effect and will feel very springy. If the rod in the center is rusty they're shot. As that buggers the seals up. Once they start leaking they're toast.

I have a gorgeous set of original GS850 shocks sitting on my shelf that I will happily sell you for, oh, only half what a set of Progressives costs.

They don't leak, they're not rusty, they have very few miles, and they look nearly new.

But they are still dangerous, wobbly, weaving, pogo-ing, squishy, no-damping, evil, lousy, cruddy, junk. They were that way when they left Hamamatsu and they quickly got worse.

You can't tell anything by looking.

That said, there were a few aftermarket companies making better shocks back in the '80s, and some of these may, in fact, still be good if that's what your bike is wearing. But original Suzuki shocks? Fuhgeddaboutit. Junk 'em ASAP.

 

[bwringer]

Lots of good info in this thread so far!

A couple of points to add or reinforce:

You can't tell much without riding the bike, other than measuring static sag. Lots of junky shocks and forks will seem OK if you just bounce up and down on the bike a bit, but will fall to pieces on the road.

The main problems with bad suspension are that the bike is unpredictable and less controllable. It will bounce, wallow and weave in corners, the forks will bottom out under hard braking, the rear will bottom out over large bumps, and the bike will feel loose and disconnected from the road. Hard braking and emergency maneuvers become impossible because the tires will literally leave the ground -- the rear will bounce and chatter (skip sideways) if you have to weave around a dog, and the front fork will bottom out and then chatter if you have to brake hard to avoid the kid chasing the dog.

Suspension is primarily a safety issue. A bike with improved suspension is much safer because it predictably goes where you point it. It also demands less of your attention while riding, so you can focus more on the hazards around you, and it's much less physically and mentally fatiguing to ride.

Some people put off upgrading their suspension because they don't ride very fast. This is a completely false and ignorant line of reasoning, unless you live in a world where nothing unpredictable ever happens.

Safety is the most important benefit to upgraded suspension. Secondary to that is improved comfort, more riding enjoyment, and yes, better performance. If you choose to, you can safely and confidently enjoy more of the bike's available performance envelope. If you just want to cruise, you will still reap the benefits of a far safer, more comfortable, less fatiguing, and more enjoyable motorcycle.

Since shocks are more expensive, a lot of people first replace fork springs. This gives you a big improvement in safety and predictability simply because you will be able to brake harder and more controllably if needed, and maneuvering will be easier.

It also serves to give the rider a taste of the daily benefits of better suspension. A well-sorted fork with a pogo-stick rear end usually leads pretty quickly to purchasing new shocks.

 

[Roostabunny]

OK, I'm on my way.

I ordered the $90 Emgos I kinda wanted the all-chrome for the factory look, but they're an extra $30, so I went for the black shock with chrome springs.

I'm planning when I'll get my fork sorted in my friend's shop. I don't wanna try that job in the 4ft wide space in the middle of my apartment complex garage. Works OK for valve adjustments and oil changes, but I think this job's going to take a little more space. And a vice. And an air wrench. OK, well that settles it. I'll bet he's got a die grinder that'll make short work of cutting and flattening the end on the springs.

So I'm thinking that the shocks come with all the hardware I'll need and bolt on complete. Any tips there? Do I need a jack, or will the center stand do?

And what's my shopping list on the springs? Fork oil. Anything else?

 

[Dogma]

On disconnecting rear shocks... When I took my rear wheel off to get the tire changed, I found that the rear wheel and swing arm are kind of heavy, and definitely awkward. Just put it on the center stand, and plan on having some lumber and a brick or some other leverage to make it easy.

There is a place on the back side of the center stand, near the hinge, where you can (should) put an allen wrench or screwdriver or something to lock the center stand in the down position. This is like having jack stands when working on a car, but cheaper. This works really well. I forgot about it when I got the wheel back on, and skidded my bike half way across the garage trying to get it down off the stand before I remembered.

When I did my fork seals, I used the center stand, and a scissor jack out of a car to lift the front end by the crankcase. The jack worked nicely because I could use it raise and lower the bike while mounting the wheel again.

 

[bwringer]

When changing fork oil, I usually grab a quart of really cheap transmission fluid and run that through to at least flush out some of the crud inside the forks.

 

[posplayr]

When changing fork oil

When changing fork oil

I only did this once but I had some heavenly crud in my GS750 forks when I put in progressives. I think the ATF starts to really curdle after not to very long.

I got a gallon of wd-40 at the auto parts store. Poured that in and used a rag on the end of a old broom stick as a ram rod. Drain and repeat. Did that about 3 times (it gets cleaner each time) then diluted the remaining WD-40 with some 10-W40, ram rod and drained and then finally did my final mix of fresh fork oil.

Posplayr

 

[bwringer]

I got a gallon of wd-40 at the auto parts store. Poured that in and used a rag on the end of a old broom stick as a ram rod. Drain and repeat. Did that about 3 times (it gets cleaner each time) then diluted the remaining WD-40 with some 10-W40, ram rod and drained and then finally did my final mix of fresh fork oil.

Posplayr

That works well, too. I use WD-40 as parts cleaner all the time, and it's a nice gentle solvent for times like this.

I think much of the stinky crud in fork oil is smashed bug parts that stick to the tubes and get carried in past the seal. Bleagh.