Am I Over-Charging

[Suzuki_Don]

As the Honda R/R seemed to be charging the battery fine before I stripped my bike down for the restoration and redid the wiring, I am wondering if maybe I rewired the R/R incorrectly. Below is a picture of my new fusebox and wiring setup.

The wire from the solenoid to power the rest of the electrical system is going to the top of the fuse (yellow) on the left of the panel. The wire in the sheath below the yellow fuse then goes away to the ignition switch.

The red power wire +ive from the R/R comes up to the green 30amp fuse from underneath and then is linked across to the other fuse on the left so the charging power can be directed back to the battery.

Will this design work or have I stuffed up in some way.


Also I have another R/R but I do not know what it is off and how to test the terminals and find out which terminals go where in the wiring system. Anyone have any ideas.

Any help will be appreciated.

 

[tom203]

If the "fins" are not electrically connected (internally) to the R/R's negative wire, that won't work. to be sure, you need to connect the negative wire of the R/R, to the batteries negative post 'via' a jumper wire.

I don't have a Honda R/R readily available to see if the -ve? (I'm old and can't remember) wire is electrically connected to the 'fins'.

I just checked three Shindengen (honda) rr's - the case is NOT connected to negative output, i.e. it's not grounded. As was stated, running the r/r ground to battery negative is real important. Doublecheck your meter reading- a rock steady reading as you rev up seems dubious- switch on turn signal, meter should jump around a bit.

 

[Steve]

I am wondering if maybe I rewired the R/R incorrectly. Below is a picture of my new fusebox and wiring setup.

The wire from the solenoid to power the rest of the electrical system is going to the top of the fuse (yellow) on the left of the panel. The wire in the sheath below the yellow fuse then goes away to the ignition switch.

The red power wire +ive from the R/R comes up to the green 30amp fuse from underneath and then is linked across to the other fuse on the left so the charging power can be directed back to the battery.

Any help will be appreciated.

One question: where does that green wire in the upper-right corner go? :-k

Most of the colors on GSs remained rather constant. The only green wire I am acquainted with is for the horns. You have it apparently feeding the fuses.

Most of the bikes will have a red wire that feeds the MAIN fuse from either the battery or the solenoid (that would be your sheathed wire on the upper left). The other side of the MAIN fuse should be a red wire that goes to the ignition switch. The return line from the ignition switch is orange, and it will feed the rest of the box (that's where your green wire is connected). From the bottom of those fuses will be the wires that feed LIGHTS, SIGNALS and IGNITION. Not sure what your fourth fuse is there. Your yellow fuse on the left end is positioned and fed as if it were the AUX circuit. It would usually just feed a set of screw terminals, not connected to anything else on the bike.

I like the workmanship on the fuse box wiring, it just looks like some wires need to be rearranged. :-\\\

.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

One question: where does that green wire in the upper-right corner go? :-k

Most of the colors on GSs remained rather constant. The only green wire I am acquainted with is for the horns. You have it apparently feeding the fuses.

Most of the bikes will have a red wire that feeds the MAIN fuse from either the battery or the solenoid (that would be your sheathed wire on the upper left). The other side of the MAIN fuse should be a red wire that goes to the ignition switch. The return line from the ignition switch is orange, and it will feed the rest of the box (that's where your green wire is connected). From the bottom of those fuses will be the wires that feed LIGHTS, SIGNALS and IGNITION. Not sure what your fourth fuse is there. Your yellow fuse on the left end is positioned and fed as if it were the AUX circuit. It would usually just feed a set of screw terminals, not connected to anything else on the bike.

I like the workmanship on the fuse box wiring, it just looks like some wires need to be rearranged. :-\\\

.

Steve,
Red wire on top left from solenoid.
Red wire in black sheath, bottom left to ignition switch.
Green wire top right from ignition switch (used larger gauge wire to provide power to the four remaining fuses, could not get orange wire in the gauge I needed) so used green.
The four wires on the bottom right feed all the other needs of the bike, coils, instrument panel, blinkers, horn, lights, etc. (I have not followed wiring diagram for this, but have split the loads on the bike over the four fuses to lighten the loads through each fuse).

The yellow fuse on the left hand end has the red solenoid wire coming in from the top and the red wire (covered by a black sheath for extra protection) coming out of the bottom which goes to the ignition switch.

The horn is wired up as is standard. The green wire at the fuse box is just a larger gauge wire that runs from the ignition switch back to the fuse box which replaces the orange wire that was there originally.

My main concern as far as the R/R goes is the red wire from the R/R which feeds into the bottom of the fusebox, second fuse from the left and from there links into the red wire from the solenoid which then goes back to the battery. Is this setup OK to charge the battery, or have I wired up the R/R incorrectly?

Thanks.

 

[rustybronco]

My main concern as far as the R/R goes is the red wire from the R/R which feeds into the bottom of the fusebox, second fuse from the left and from there links into the red wire from the solenoid which then goes back to the battery. Is this setup OK to charge the battery, or have I wired up the R/R incorrectly?

Sounds good to me!

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Sounds good to me!

Thanks Dale, now I know the wiring is OK I can start looking for another R/R to replace my faulty one (apparently).

 

[rustybronco]

Don, you may want to research Gel cell batteries. IIRC they like a higher than normal charging voltage.

not saying you regulator is good or faulty, but it might be wise to charge up the battery and retest your indicated voltages at idle and 5K RPMs. those measurements you recently had differ from when you first posted and are quite odd.

one more thing. may I suggest you don't test a R/R's output with the bike running and leaving the red wire disconnected from the battery. all that energy has to go somewhere. sending it back to the stator, or given up as heat in the R/R isn't my idea of a good thing to do.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Don, you may want to research Gel cell batteries. IIRC they like a higher than normal charging voltage.

not saying you regulator is good or faulty, but it might be wise to charge up the battery and retest your indicated voltages at idle and 5K RPMs. those measurements you recently had differ from when you first posted and are quite odd.

one more thing. may I suggest you don't test a R/R's output with the bike running and leaving the red wire disconnected from the battery. all that energy has to go somewhere. sending it back to the stator, or given up as heat in the R/R isn't my idea of a good thing to do.

Thanks Dale, just read your post and will take your advice as suggested. My battery is fully charged, up around 13v, The battery is new, only a few months old. Not sure what type it is. It's the type where you fill it with acid and then there is no maintenance after that. It is completely sealed now. The problem has always been charging too high, at around 14.9 volts (sometimes 14.8v) and not budging from that whether at idle or running at higher revs.

Anyway I've just been down to the local wrecker and picked up a Shindengen SH232-12 9.1 R/R. So will try and get it mounted before the long ride on Saturday afternoon.

Here it is, I will have to modify the wires for fitting to the 550 and then hopefully everything will be OK. I am going to mount it on a 10mm aluminium plate to add an extra heat sink to try and keep it cool.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Don, it's too high for my tastes. although I've seen some R/R's 'high limit' regulation listed as high as 15.1V.

my simple test is to move the sense wire to the battery, start it, then see if the regulated voltage differs from where it was originally connected.

Dale I have replaced the R/R and charging is still at 14.8V, 14.9V when riding the bike. I put 130km on the bike at the weekend, 1 3/4 hours continuous riding. At traffic lights it drops down to 12.6V, etc.

I read in the later model GS550 and the VX800 Suzuki Factory manuals that charging is supposed to be between 13.5V and 15.5V, so mine is in the recommended area, although I still think it's a bit high. I will just ride it and see what happens. The worst it can do is boil the battery I guess.

Also I tested for continuity between the earth wire and the fins on the R/R and there isn't any. I have mounted the new R/R on a piece of 10mm aluminium plate under the airbox to hopefully help with cooling.

 

[fatnfast]

I dont think you have much to worry about, after all the RR is regulating even if it does seem a 'little' high.
For piece of mind I have fitted a little led that indicates the charge rate. Have a look at item 150479033981 on ebay. They work a treat and you can set the parameters as well (and they are cheap, UK made, and he will send overseas).
You could have a look at the compufire RR's, but if you go down this route save money and get an RR from a late (2007 on) Yamaha R1. Its also made by shindengen, can handle 50amps, and is easy to wire in. Im just waiting for a cheap one to turn up and that will be my next move.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

I dont think you have much to worry about, after all the RR is regulating even if it does seem a 'little' high.
For piece of mind I have fitted a little led that indicates the charge rate. Have a look at item 150479033981 on ebay. They work a treat and you can set the parameters as well (and they are cheap, UK made, and he will send overseas).
You could have a look at the compufire RR's, but if you go down this route save money and get an RR from a late (2007 on) Yamaha R1. Its also made by shindengen, can handle 50amps, and is easy to wire in. Im just waiting for a cheap one to turn up and that will be my next move.

Thanks for the reply. I am going with the R/R I have just fitted. I would like one that charges at about 14.5V but so far have not been able to find the specs for the different SH series Shindengen R/Rs. There should be some data sheets around somewhere where I can find the cut-out voltage of each of the units. Still looking.

BTW I do have a voltmeter on the bike as can be seen earlier in this thread. IT charges at 14.9 most of the time, but has never hit the 15V mark yet.

 

[posplayr]

Don,

sounds high.

What is the voltage difference between the R/R sense point (at the brake light) and the battery voltage at (+)? I'm guessing the brake light is lower by about 0.4V

If the brake light sense point is low , you need to move the sense point. The output of a relay is best. Try the coil relay mod and use that. It has been discussed here many time.

Jim

Don,
So after all the dust has settled, did you ever measure what I described above. It would most likely explain the high charging voltage.
Jim

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Don,
So after all the dust has settled, did you ever measure what I described above. It would most likely explain the high charging voltage.
Jim

Jim, you should be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reply to that question is in an earlier post. So just for you here it is AGAIN.

0.2V

Thanks for any more input Jim, I always value your electrical knowledge. Any idea where to find data sheets on the various R/Rs that we use? The two I have are a SH532 and a SH232, although I am bidding on a couple of more R/Rs for future use that appear to be on the cheap at this stage. Just as backups.

 

[posplayr]

Jim, you should be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reply to that question is in an earlier post. So just for you here it is AGAIN.

0.2V

.

Don,
Thanks. It was difficult to sort out in a 30 post thread on installing an R/R. I won't bother to delve into the question of whether you did anything about it.
Jim

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Don,
Thanks. It was difficult to sort out in a 30 post thread on installing an R/R. I won't bother to delve into the question of whether you did anything about it.
Jim

Jim how much would 0.2V cause the R/R to over charge.

 

[posplayr]

jim how much would 0.2v cause the r/r to over charge.

0.2v





................

 

[850 Combat]

I have seen more than one case where the sense wire was connected to the tail light wire, and it was overcharging because the connectors that fed the tail light and, therefore, the sense wire, were dirty, not letting the sense wire 'see' enough voltage. When the connectors were cleaned, the output voltage came right down to where it should be.

.

I had one do that. I moved it to the battery temporarily 1 year and a half ago. no problems since. I probably won't bother to change it ever.

 

[posplayr]

I had one do that. I moved it to the battery temporarily 1 year and a half ago. no problems since. I probably won't bother to change it ever.

see second post in this thread

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1314933&postcount=2

 

[GabrielGoes]

(temporary thread jack alert**)

Mine charges at 13.9 at 4k rpm but doesn't go over when i rev it higher.. is this a sign of weak charging? i believe the healthy range was 13.9-14.5 @ 4k rpm and mines on the bare minimum.. just a little worried being on the bottom end... i have electrosport r/r wired directly to the stator wires, i just dont want to have a charging issue when im 30 miles from home at work

 

[Suzuki_Don]

The latest update is that although the voltage drop at the brake light switch terminal was only 0.2V I decided to switch the sense wire to the live side of the solenoid and see what happens. So after doing that change to the wiring I took it for a short ride and could not get it above 3000rpm because of the afternoon traffic and it was registering 14.3V at those revs and about 12.6V at idle.

I will have to do a more thorough test when I get the chance to ride a bit further where I can get the revs up to 5000 or so and see what the voltage is at then. I will also need to keep a check on the battery voltage to see if it discharges at all from having the sense wire connected directly to the solenoid. My battery is normally 12.9V when standing (motor not running). So I will watch it over a few days and see if it drops at all.