Athena Gaskets... Garbage or bad batch?

[sam78gs750]

Those are the gaskets I used having leaks with valve cover and stator, now. Crap!

Wow, so if they are OEM fom parts shark and THOSE are leaking.... I think I'm just gonna take Nessism's advice from another thread on the subject and just start making gaskets from pizza boxes....It'll be much easier that way

 

[toejams1]

#*&@*!@&

#*&@*!@&

Add me to the Athena is crap list! After work the other day, I quickly cleaned my bike with Simple Green, and sprayed it off with a garden hose. I start riding home and I look down, and oil is all over the place. I pull over, and it is literally dripping off the bike. I got the bike home (pant leg covered and soaking in oil). Last night I degreased it and started it. It looks like it is coming from the head gasket right under the middle two headers. I just replaced that gasket a month ago, and there is only 1,000 miles on the bike since then. I checked all the bolts with a torque wrench and they all seemed OK. I guess I am lucky this happened relatively close to home, and not when I was 300 miles from home last week in West Virginia!

$#&$(#$#!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last thing I want to do is tear that head off again, but it looks like that is my only option. OEM for me from now on!

 

[sam78gs750]

Add me to the Athena is crap list! .....OEM for me from now on!

Same here... I replaced the Athena crap valve cover gasket that leaked after 150 miles with OEM and so far so good. now I just have to replace the Athena cam chain tensioner gasket that's leaking now too after just 500 miles.... Never again. I'm just glad I didn't do the head gasket yet. The rest of the Athena set is going in the garbage!

 

[gs road racer]

I?m reversing my position and eating crow on my support of Athena gaskets; noticed last night that the base gasket on my 1000S is starting to protrude out from between the cylinder and crankcase and crack. Apparently the clamping pressure is causing the gasket to fail. This engine only has about 200 miles on it since being rebuilt. I?ve noticed that the head nuts have been loose each time I?ve checked, although the torque falloff is less now than the first time I checked. I was attributing this falloff to the head gasket but obviously the base gasket is compressing too.

Athena = Junk

Part of this maybe that the stock studs are worn out like any fastener it only takes a few cycles of torquing before they start to stretch beyond serviceable limits 3-4 times max..especially with higher performance motors...cam covers warping , this can be a problem even with OEM gaskets check the covers also on a surface plate most machine shops have big enough ones. Check surfaces BEFORE you put a new gasket on.Many times small gouges from removing old gaskets is the culprit not the gasket.Hands up how many have used a hammer to get a stuck cylinder off the crankcases? Was anything bent in that process?There's more to see then saying a product is bad , a gasket for the most part is just paper. Preparation is the key flat clean surfaces and a little grease on the paper ones...

 

[Nessism]

Part of this maybe that the stock studs are worn out like any fastener it only takes a few cycles of torquing before they start to stretch beyond serviceable limits 3-4 times max..especially with higher performance motors...cam covers warping , this can be a problem even with OEM gaskets check the covers also on a surface plate most machine shops have big enough ones. Check surfaces BEFORE you put a new gasket on.Many times small gouges from removing old gaskets is the culprit not the gasket.Hands up how many have used a hammer to get a stuck cylinder off the crankcases? Was anything bent in that process?There's more to see then saying a product is bad , a gasket for the most part is just paper. Preparation is the key flat clean surfaces and a little grease on the paper ones...

Edit: I generally agree that oil leaks are very often caused by driver error. The gasket surfaces need to be clean and free of old gasket material, gouges, and they need to be flat. As I stated earlier in this thread, for basic applications like the cam chain gasket, valve cover, sump cover, etc, you could use a pizza box and it shouldn't leak if the surfaces are in good condition and the gasket fits the holes properly and doesn't squirm out of place when you tighten the bolts. Please don't use a pizza box by the way, that was just an example.

Regarding my bike, I had both the head and cylinder machined before installing the head - cost me $100. Torqued the fasteners with Snap-On dial type torque wrench that has been calibrated. And if the cylinder studs were stretching the base basket wouldn't be extruding out of place. The base gasket is surprisingly brittle too which is also a bad sign (I was able to easily break off chunks that are protruding out the side of the engine). Athena sucks.

 

[Guest]

For those of you able to get an OEM gasket set, you're lucky.

No matter where I look, the '81 450 sets are discontinued and unavailable, and I have even tried a couple of NOS places here as well as looking through Alpha Sports, Partshark, Cycle Parts Nation, etc. from the US.

So, I guess my only option is to keep compiling my list of gaskets and get ready to visit a Suzuki dealer to see what I can still get individually.

There is a place here that sells Athena, but after reading through these I'm really not happy about buying them...

 

[Guest]

So I'm bringing this thread to life again as I've gotten NOS prices for only some of my gaskets, and they're going to kill me.

I'm thinking NOS base, head, and valve cover gaskets, and complete Athena kit for the rest, otherwise I can see it taking another year just to spread the costs of the gaskets out!

Here's what the local Athena dealer had to say about the quality of the gasket sets he distributes:

G'day Peter,

You are correct with the kit 06CS78 but unfortunately I am presently out of
stock and replacement is due around 4 weeks.

The kit includes necessary "O" Rings and gaskets.

Athena is the O.E.M. gasket producer for all the European makes of
motorcycles and therefore their products are beyond reproach.
For obvious reasons without naming them, there are other European gasket
manufacturers and for that matter Japanese and Chinese as well, whose
quality is questionable, so I reast my case.

Should you have the time to wait for my next delivery from Athena, I would
be most pleased to place your order on hold.

Now I do realise he's going to blow Athena's trumpet for him, but this guy is supposed to be a talented and respected ex-speedway racer, so I'm guessing there should be some integrity there...

 

[gs road racer]

Edit: I generally agree that oil leaks are very often caused by driver error. The gasket surfaces need to be clean and free of old gasket material, gouges, and they need to be flat. As I stated earlier in this thread, for basic applications like the cam chain gasket, valve cover, sump cover, etc, you could use a pizza box and it shouldn't leak if the surfaces are in good condition and the gasket fits the holes properly and doesn't squirm out of place when you tighten the bolts. Please don't use a pizza box by the way, that was just an example.

Regarding my bike, I had both the head and cylinder machined before installing the head - cost me $100. Torqued the fasteners with Snap-On dial type torque wrench that has been calibrated. And if the cylinder studs were stretching the base basket wouldn't be extruding out of place. The base gasket is surprisingly brittle too which is also a bad sign (I was able to easily break off chunks that are protruding out the side of the engine). Athena sucks.

Ed the gaskets were brittle??? Old stock dried/baked up maybe? A gasket like that is a very simple thing ( I like the pizza box and disclaimer!) Has to be a reason for it to squeeze out , crankcase pressure? base gasket surface not flat? Missing or old hard cylinder o-rings? I'd be looking for some other causes as well. I used to glass bead all the motors I rebuilt it was part of our shop estimate. It also gave a nice slightly roughed surface quick way of removing gaskets too! Never had a failure. Yes you have to be very careful damage can result! NOT so quick because of the work cleaning up after. Just a FYI we had a power washer with hot water and degreaser it was the first stop after blasting then cleaned with air and on to the parts cleaner (solvent bath). All surfaces checked for true with a 12" machinists flat bar.Grease is applied to all except head gaskets....helps the gasket flow and aids the next guy when it is removal time. Did a replacement work out ok? Do anything differently? My pet peeve is I want to know why something failed simple replacement sometimes just gets a repeat failure. We do tend to take much more care too when we have to redo something, which is why I asked if you did anything differently.... please post about your replacement .......

Randy

 

[Redneck]

So my question is now this. If Athena is the sole manufacturer of OEM gaskets for the European market, does that mean I am buying Athena made gaskets if I by the OEM gaskets from Cyclenation? Inquiring minds want to know. As for OEM kits i put together an OEM kit myself from Cycle nation and it totaled up around $150 without shipping. Shipping cost for me here in maine was $44 for 3 day shipping and $27 for ground shipping.

 

[Guest]

Hmmm... I guess I can expect a pretty hefty shipping bill to Aus then if it's $44/$27 for interstate in the US.

Guess I'll just wait and see what CPN says if they reply to my email...

Quick edit... I just answered this thinking of my rebuild thread, so sorry if it don't make much sense and see below if you want to understand what I'm talking about (you'll have to scroll down a way to see it)

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=158670&page=3

 

[Nessism]

Ed the gaskets were brittle??? Old stock dried/baked up maybe? A gasket like that is a very simple thing ( I like the pizza box and disclaimer!) Has to be a reason for it to squeeze out , crankcase pressure? base gasket surface not flat? Missing or old hard cylinder o-rings? I'd be looking for some other causes as well. I used to glass bead all the motors I rebuilt it was part of our shop estimate. It also gave a nice slightly roughed surface quick way of removing gaskets too! Never had a failure. Yes you have to be very careful damage can result! NOT so quick because of the work cleaning up after. Just a FYI we had a power washer with hot water and degreaser it was the first stop after blasting then cleaned with air and on to the parts cleaner (solvent bath). All surfaces checked for true with a 12" machinists flat bar.Grease is applied to all except head gaskets....helps the gasket flow and aids the next guy when it is removal time. Did a replacement work out ok? Do anything differently? My pet peeve is I want to know why something failed simple replacement sometimes just gets a repeat failure. We do tend to take much more care too when we have to redo something, which is why I asked if you did anything differently.... please post about your replacement .......

Randy

I think Athena is using the wrong kind of gasket material for the base gasket; it compresses too easily and is brittle - bad combination. I haven't replaced the gasket yet since it's not leaking (fingers crossed it will stay that way). I'm building another GS1000 engine right now with OE gaskets and the base gasket is thinner and harder. The base gasket is a unique application within the engine and similarly needs a special type of gasket material. I didn't pay attention to this detail before and it looks like I'm going to be paying for that oversight.

Regarding other Athena gaskets, most seem fine to me but not of the same quality as the OE stuff. For example, the OE gaskets have an almost rubbery feel to them, and some are coated with something to supplement the seal. I do NOT recommend using oil/grease on gaskets, unless you are a racer and plan on tearing into the engine on a regular basis, since this will defeat the coating layer. The Athena gaskets are more papery so to speak for lack of a more technical description. Again, no worries with the majority of these gaskets but it's easy to see that they will tear more easily and not conform as nicely as the OE gaskets.

My wonderment now is if the Athena rubber parts are any good - doubt has entered my mind.

To be fair to Athena I don't know for a fact that these gaskets are bad other than the base gasket. For those people on a budget, I'd say get the Athena kit but order an OE base gasket and consider using OE rubber base gasket O-rings too since these parts are critical, yet not too expensive to order OE.

.

 

[sam78gs750]

I think Athena is using the wrong kind of gasket material for the base gasket; it compresses too easily and is brittle - bad combination.
Regarding other Athena gaskets, most seem fine to me but not of the same quality as the OE stuff. For example, the OE gaskets have an almost rubbery feel to them, and some are coated with something to supplement the seal.
To be fair to Athena I don't know for a fact that these gaskets are bad other than the base gasket.

Regarding other Athena gaskets: As I said earlier in this thread, all I used from the Athena set were the valve cover and cam chain tensioner gasket, and both leaked on me. I used great care in installation. All surfaces were clean and flat and I torqued to the middle of the range specified in my service manual incrementally and in the proper bolt sequence. As soon as I had an OE valve cover gasket in my hands, the huge difference in quality was apparent. It did have an almost rubbery feel to it and seemed a lot sturdier in comparison. The Athena gasket paper was a fibrous material and seemed brittle and doomed to fail from the start. Indeed it did fail and started pouring oil down the side of my engine after only 150 miles. after removing it in one piece, I flexed it a little out of curiosity and it easily cracked into several pieces...after only 150 miles?!?!?! the ??? yr old gasket I took off that was held on with gobs of rtv didn't break so easily. I put about 1000 miles on the bike since replacing the Athena gasket with OE and there's not even a hint of weeping.... Actually, I did use the points cover gasket from the athena set too, and that seems fine, but that's only thin paper and there's no fluid flowing through there...
Regarding Athena: Use at your own risk, but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone....

 

[Nessism]

Pulled off the top end on my GS1000 tonight to replace the base gasket after only a few hundred miles. It was worse than I had thought; the gasket had extruded and was paper thin in the high pressure areas. Never again.

 

[posplayr]

Pulled off the top end on my GS1000 tonight to replace the base gasket after only a few hundred miles. It was worse than I had thought; the gasket had extruded and was paper thin in the high pressure areas. Never again.

that is totally ridiculous

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

I wonder if it would do any good to coat the gaskets in oil before installing them

 

[Guest]

Aaaah crap Ed, that's a real shame.

I'm going to have no choice when I start reassembling my 450 but to use Athena as the cost of genuine is just ridiculous and I more than likely won't be able to get half of them either.

I have at least got a genuine base gasket already, and in fact I got all the genuine o-rings, oil seals, and gaskets that are for the bottom end.

I figure if I have to pull the head or valve cover or a side cover, then it'll be a pain but can all be done with the engine in the frame and probably only a few hours work at the most.

What I don't want to do is have to do things like splitting crank cases or remove the barrels due to a gasket failure.

What I find interesting is that the guy who distributes Athena here in Brissie is an ex-speedway rider who apparently was really good at riding and wrenching, and he swears by the brand, yet I see obviously on the forums here that there are so many issues with them... I wonder what the deal is with that? Has he just become a salesman now who will say what he needs to sell his product? Does he happen to know a way of ensuring he only gets the "good" Athena sets?

I'm also wondering if maybe the stockists in the US have heaps on hand and are therefore older stock and not as good, whereas this guy doesn't keep much on hand and has to order regularly, so he will be getting fresh stock all the time. I hope that makes sense...

 

[Skateguy50]

Im almost certain that was the aftermarket brand of my base gasket... leak started about 4k after install and this is after 6k. The chunk in the middle was MIA the other parts where just supper brittle and cracked. Also the valve cover gasket only lasted 1 check.

The head gasket from the kit held up ok but it was missing 2 orings and that leaked.

 

[Guest]

So what do the retailers/dealers say when these things happen?

Do they say you must've installed it wrong? Do they offer some sort of warranty? Or is it so sad too bad?

I would hope there would be some sort of assistance because this isn't good...

 

[posplayr]

So what do the retailers/dealers say when these things happen?

Do they say you must've installed it wrong? Do they offer some sort of warranty? Or is it so sad too bad?

I would hope there would be some sort of assistance because this isn't good...

They say that the surfaces were not pretty enough

 

[Guest]

Not pretty enough? I've seen enough posts and pic's on here from you guys to know you seem to know what you're doing, so I'd be surprised.

Guess I'll just havta wait and see how mine hold up when I get there, not feeling too good about it tho...