attn: Bandit rear swap experts

[Mario]

What is your measurement for the shock tabs you put on. How far from the rear of the swingarm did you place it. Did you use clevis shocks or eye shocks?

 

[niclpnut]

Mario,

I'm trying to figure out the same thing.

You can buy everything complete from Katman http://www.parts.suzuki-katana.com/ however I like to do things myself. Also I hate badgering Katman/Rob for info since I'm not buying the components from him. I did get some parts from him for my ES Sprocket/spacers. I've asked around on the forum and have got some info from members and from past builds.

I had these cut by a local machinist after I came up with a drawing with measurements.

I estimated some, but Jwhelan65 was nice enough to give me some better measurements of the mounts.

Height 35mm
Length (base) 50mm
Width 20mm
ID for bushing 22mm
Bushing ID 10mm
Bushing length 22.5mm

I centered the bushing with 5-6mm of meat on the upper part of the mount.

Seems like alot of the bandit arms I've seen have the mount located directly over the weld before the axle:

However, on a stock 1100 arm the Shock mount center to center of the pivot bolt is right at 18.5" or ~470mm which would place the mount location on a bandit arm here in stock format:

About 3/4-13/16 of an inch further forward.

Additionally, it seems that longer shocks are used when the mounts are over the weld:

Posplayr mentioned

"Alot of guys are running 14.0+" long shocks to quicken the suspension.

The SU-145 are about 350-370mm vs. 330 for the SU-143's which are closer to the 13" OEM's."

So for stock length shocks...move the mounts forward from the mount a bit that is assuming guys are running longer than stock shocks.



On a stock arm the measured from the outside of the mounts on either side is right at 12". I'm using a 1000 arm for reference.

Measuring the width of the Bandit arm from the outside edge of each leg is 13" give or take a 16th.

Measure a half inch in and you should be 12" from the outside of each shock mount. Which would place the mount this far in from the edge of the arm:

Some of this is conjecture and my measurements might not be 100% correct (me using a ****ty tape measure...) but it at least is a start point, and if others would like to take some measurements and or add some input that would be great.


Nic

 

[niclpnut]

Also found a shot of a bandit arm that Katman uses on a turbo kat. Notice where the mounts are located (yes it has extensions)

And some interesting info on trail in regards to his set up and the stock set up of a gs1100/kat and gsxr that kataman posted in the same thread. http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=165606&highlight=bandit+swingarm+shocks

Was doing some "TRAIL" measuring today and here are my results.

I found the correlation between engine cradle angle and trail effect is about 1inch per degree.

I measured the trail with the bike sitting at 3.5 degrees, gsxr 750 29" front fork setup, 17" front wheel. Don't ask me about other setting as this is an excersize in differentials not actual numbers for a particular bike..

That being said, I reset the bike using a 19" front wheel, same forks. That gave me a new angle of the engine cradle of 2.5", increased the trail by 1" to 4.25" from 3.25".

Now I set up the bike like it would sit weighted with proper sag numbers of 40mm rear and 60mm front (ride height total sag recommended figures from Ohlins USA). This puts the bike in the actual attidude it will have when I am riding it. Here are some stock trail numbers:
GS1100E 4.06"
GS1100 katana 4.65"
GSXR 750w 3.7"
Ducati 1098 3.85"
2008 busa 3.66"
zx14 3.7"

According to the information above my goal is somewhere between the katana and the GSXR (closer to the GSXR). After setup I measured the trail to be 3.75". Now, from the angle numbers above I could predict the new engine cradle angle to be 3.0 degrees. I checked it and it was 3.1.

In the picture below you can see the difference between the 19" and 17" wheel. With the 19" wheel the trail increases by the steering stem angle increasing and the axle actually moving back.



This post is for general information that some may find interesting. Also because I have seen some jacked up Gs's recently and wanted to show how little changes in a bikes attitude can change a stable bike into a tank slappin bronco buckin world of hurt. I know there are other factors involved and trail is one important part of the stability of the motocycle.

It may be beneficial to start a seperate thead on this subject of others who need more specific information. Please don't debate it here as I feel it could be a long discussion and I don't want to get too far off track.

My setup is gsxr 17" wheels, '94 gsxr 750 forks (29" length), 954 drop triples, bandit 1200 swingarm with extensions and custom shock mount location. Without the 4" over on the swing the trail would increase as the back end would be lowered slightly.






Makes me think that the reason for the mounts being over the weld before the axle is for trail purposes.

Nic

 

[Guest]

I went to a local machine shop with some measurements & he fabbed these up for $20.00. Been working great for the last 3 years. I need better shocks though, lol.

 

[niclpnut]

Running stock length 13" shocks?

Nic

 

[posplayr]

this is a picture I have available of a Katman Bandit 1200 swinger. From what I remember he spaced one side out a little more to avoid contact with the left spring of the Ohlins shock.

These are the SU-145 Ohlins (stock length + 30-50mm)

 

[niclpnut]

Was the longer shock length a recommendation or your preference?

Nic

 

[posplayr]

Was the longer shock length a recommendation or your preference?

Nic

It was a recommendation and it is now my preference although it is perhaps difficult to separate out the benefits of length from the rest of the SU-145 package.

 

[niclpnut]

Thanks pos. Indeed the quality of the ohlins is amazing.

Therefore moving the shock mount forward for 13" shocks to keep general stock geometry seems doable.

Nic

 

[posplayr]

Therefore moving the shock mount forward for 13" shocks to keep general stock geometry seems doable.

Nic

I relied on Rob for the setup but I would have no hesitation in moving the mount forward to get the increased ride height.

 

[Mario]

Where do the bushing come from? Wat are thry? Stock bushings?

 

[niclpnut]

Yeah stock lower shock bushings. Press fit into the custom mounts

 

[tas850g]

Checkout HJFISK and his bike. He used a bandit swingarm I think.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=203679&highlight=Road+kill

 

[Mario]

chain clearance from tire? I have everything set in place and the chain is only 1=2 mm from the tire. 180 tire. did you go with a 170 tire?? what did you do with the chain guide? i had to shave mine to get it to fit in the frame..

 

[posplayr]

I run a 170. Are you planning on rear sets? I retained stock but had to offset the swing arm using an offset in the top hat bushings.

chain spacing will depend on wheel width. Is 5.5x17" you need 5/8 counter sprocket offset. It is tight and you need the smallest chain you can find. Katman has recommendations.

 

[Mario]

i will be retaining the stock pegs set up. I was thinking i had to go to a 170 tire. the thought of the chain being so close to the tire...... 170/60 i presume.??
Does your wheel sit centered in the swingarm, or centered in the bike???My shocks line up with the swingarm but it seems the tire is off to the right...

 

[posplayr]

Was the longer shock length a recommendation or your preference?

Nic

Now just retreading your post above. It has been a while but I'm pretty sure that rob placed the shock mounts on the weld to maintain the swing arm geometry assuming a 13" shock. Intact he assumed an Ohlins shock as I recall discussions about putting one shock slightly more outboard . Probably for chain clearance.
i don't remember and discussion of setting the mount to achieve a specific trail setting which is obviously fork specific. In fact when I first got the swing arm I did not have the su-145s ; I had the standardOhlins .
Bottom line you can change handling by raising rear ride height. Doing that with shocks is expensive. If you know what your objectives are re:trail and tv rest of your bikes configuration ( wheels , forks, triple.... Etc) then set the swing arm mounts appropriately.
A the time I did not ant to go though the detail and trial and error so I just bought the swinger from rob. This area is obviously something that can have a big impact if done properly.

 

[posplayr]

i will be retaining the stock pegs set up. I was thinking i had to go to a 170 tire. the thought of the chain being so close to the tire...... 170/60 i presume.??
Does your wheel sit centered in the swingarm, or centered in the bike???My shocks line up with the swingarm but it seems the tire is off to the right...

As per conventional wisdom, wheels are on the centerline of the bike. The bandit swingarm is not symmetrical and has about 3/16" offset. You will have to accommodate that and shift the swingarm further over if you want to retain the stock brake master.
if you look at my build (start at the beginning) you will see what I had to do).


Remember i have 18 wheels not 17, (a choice I made at the onset to make things less difficult) so my wheel spacers will be diff to a 17 conversion. But the swingarm to frame clearance to allow for the brake rod will be the se.

Sorry looks like some of the pictures are missing and need resetting........maybe later.

 

[niclpnut]

I'm run in a 180 rear tire using the stock swing arm modified for an underslung bandit caliper. Also offset 520 chain and sprockets.
have approximately 2mm of clearance from the tire.



Nic

 

[posplayr]

I'm run in a 180 rear tire using the stock swing arm modified for an underslung bandit caliper. Also offset 520 chain and sprockets.
have approximately 2mm of clearance from the tire.



Nic

For comparison, using 530 chain and 18x4.5" wheel with 170/60-18 tire I have closer to 5mm on each side.