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Auto Start??????

  • Thread starter Thread starter devildogGS850
  • Start date Start date
D

devildogGS850

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Any idea why my GS 850 would start itself as soon as I engage the clutch? Its also makes a nasty high pitched sound (metal on metal?) when I turn the engine off....I was going to change the oil today anyway, but it sounds like I might have a longer day ahead than I had planned. Its early Saturday morning, so if you have any thoughts, I'd appreciate them ASAP so I can do what I need to do before Monday.


Thanks!
 
Sounds like you have a short in the starter circuit where the starter button is seeing a constant signal. The starter motor turns when pulling in the clutch because of the interlock - you can't engage the starter unless the clutch is pulled in. The sound you hear could be related to the starter trying to engage even thought he engine is running. Not sure what to suggest in terms of trouble shooting but I'd start with the button circuit and trace it back toward the starter motor.
 
Can the solenoid be "unstuck?" Also, as I'm looking through my shop manual, I don't see anything for "solenoid"...would that have another name, perhaps the AC Regulator?
 
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Try "starter relay". The AC Regulator is your regulator/rectifier and is in your charging circuit, not your starting curcuit. You can try tapping on the relay with a wrench to try to unstick it temporarily, but you really need to replace it if it's prone to stick, it can cause much more damage if it continues and it's cheaper than a new starter.
 
Follow the positive cable from the battery. It goes straight to the solenoid.
 
If you need one get one from a lawn and garden tractor dealer. Cost aboout $15~$20. The genuine S part will run you about 70 or so.
 
Go to Lowes for sure (and maybe Home Depot). In the lawn equipment aisle, you will find starter solenoids for lawn tractors. Cost is about $12 and they are a perfect fit with the correct mounting hole spacing. I've been using them for years whenever I need to replace a solenoid.

Earl
 
On to Step 2

On to Step 2

OK, the solenoid was an easy enough fix...found one at Lowe's for $12...thanks for the advice.

Unfortunately, that did not solve the problem...again, when I suqeeze the clutch, the engine starts. After resealing the airbox, I guess the good news is that she starts stronger than before.

Just dissassembled the starter button next to the throttle and still having the same problem, so I know its not the button.

I guess that narrows it down to either the clutch or something electrical (not the solenoid)...the bike starts strong so I don't think its the starter motor itself (right?)

Sounds like I'm looking for a short...is that just corroded connections and/or wires?
 
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Well, the first problem I see is that the starter button (or any of the other buttons/switches) should not be getting power with the key off. That leads me to believe that there is a problem with the ignition switch or the wiring connected to it. If the bike just turned over and didn't start, I'd say you might have a hot short in the wiring harness, but since it starts, the whole system is getting power. Now, the switch can't be the only problem, since you can't start the bike with the ignition switch, but it's the first place I'd start.

Sounds to me like someone either did some creative wiring on your bike or you've got the most unusual series of electrical shorts I've ever heard of.

Does the starter continue spinning after the engine starts?
 
I should have prefaced by saying that everything is off when the key is off. When I turn the key to start, lights, etc are fine. Then when I squeeze the clutch in to start the bike, voila, she starts...without pressing the starter button.

I took apart the starter button, thinking it might be stuck internally, and the same thing happened. Once she starts, she sounds normal enough, but I can hear the starter trying to fire every time I squeze the clutch all the way, even though the engine is already running.
 
Okay, then your switch should be fine. But you need to fix the problem soon or you'll fry your starter. It sounds like the wires to the starter button and the wires to the clutch safety switch somehow got switched. If you disconnect your clutch safety switch, does the starter button work? You may end up having to rewire both circuits.

Don't know if disconnecting the clutch switch will work, since originally the switch was a safety feature that wouldn't allow the starter to engage without the clutch held in, but who knows? You can't do the simple bypass that I did on my bike because the starter would be constantly engaged.

Worst case scenario, take out the clutch switch circuit completely and rewire your start button. It would be nice to find out what caused all of this in the first place, though. Does the wiring harness look like the PO might have tampered with it? (butt connectors, solder, electrical tape, etc.)
 
devildogGS850 said:
I should have prefaced by saying that everything is off when the key is off. When I turn the key to start, lights, etc are fine. Then when I squeeze the clutch in to start the bike, voila, she starts...without pressing the starter button.

I took apart the starter button, thinking it might be stuck internally, and the same thing happened. Once she starts, she sounds normal enough, but I can hear the starter trying to fire every time I squeze the clutch all the way, even though the engine is already running.
Click to expand...

Definitely something with the button. I can just imagine the surprise you'd have gotten if the clutch switch had been bypassed.:shock: Go through the start button switch and clean everything up. Then trace back through the wiring and check and clean all the connections.

Brad bt
 
The thing that gets me is that I purchased the bike about a month ago with no issues at all, and this clutch thing just started happening yesterday...I'm not sure that it's switched wires (why would it have worked ok before?)
 
you are not dealing with a short unless you are blowing fuses. what you have is a start circuit where the control has been bypassed at some point by either a path to ground or as preveously mentioned a stuck solenoid. now since the starter cutout (clutch switch) is working to control the circuit the problem is in the low current switch circuit.find the g/y wire that goes from the start button to the clutch switch and see if it has power when the key is on. (black meter lead on neg battery terminal red lead on wire being checked for voltage)the clutch switch should NOT recive any power until you have pushed in the start button if you have power check both the start button and the engine stop switch as the stop switch controls power to the start button, as well as the coils and ign ignitor unit none of these should have power with the engine stop switch in the off position also check all the connectors in between as the switches wont do a thing if a connector has melted and bypassed the switches. good luck.
 
Ok, just to clarify....my next step is to check the g/y wire that goes from the starter button to the clutch switch. There should be no power coming from that wire unless I'm actually pressing the starter button.

I replaced the solenoid this morning, and there wire two wires (each one connected to one pole of the solenoid). In addition there was a ground wire, and a third wire that was soldered to the old solenoid (the new one had a third smaller post with a hole through it). Is this somehow connected to this problem? I rewired the new solenoid exactly as the old had been.

I'm just having a hard time wrapping my brain around this...everything, clutch safety switch and starter button were working fine one second, and then all of the sudden...not. I would understand if I was having problem with a bike I just took delivery of and would suspect that there had been some half-assed rewiring done, but everything has been working like a charm for the last month, and then suddenly its as if my bike rewired itself in the middle of the night.
 
Jd Powell said:
what you have is a start circuit where the control has been bypassed at some point by either a path to ground or as preveously mentioned a stuck solenoid. now since the starter cutout (clutch switch) is working to control the circuit the problem is in the low current switch circuit.find the g/y wire that goes from the start button to the clutch switch and see if it has power when the key is on. (black meter lead on neg battery terminal red lead on wire being checked for voltage)the clutch switch should NOT recive any power until you have pushed in the start button if you have power check both the start button and the engine stop switch as the stop switch controls power to the start button, as well as the coils and ign ignitor unit none of these should have power with the engine stop switch in the off position also check all the connectors in between as the switches wont do a thing if a connector has melted and bypassed the switches. good luck.
Click to expand...


Since I have replaced the solenoid, I believe I can rule that out...and I am not blowing any fuses. Sounds like the engine stop switch??? The bike still runs once it starts though...could it be the engine stop switch if that is the case. If so...where is the engine stop switch? If that switch is bad, would the bike still start and run perfectly (just not start in a manner I would like?)
 
Starter Disconnect Switch?

Starter Disconnect Switch?

In looking through my wiring diagram in the shop manual, I noticed something called the starter disconnect switch. I guess logic would dictate that if this switch was bad, the starter could continually be stuck "on" but only fire when the clutch safety allows it (when the clutch is squeezed...seems like a logical place to look except that I have no clue where it is....any thoughts?
 
A few points:
you are not dealing with a short unless you are blowing fuses.
Click to expand...
Well, the wiring harness has a lot of wires going to and fro; if two of the wrong wires touch, you'll get surprising behavior. It's not necessarily a short to ground, but the electrons are traveling a SHORTer path than intended.

In looking through my wiring diagram in the shop manual
Click to expand...
That's the path to a resolution. While looking at the diagram, follow the current path in the starter circuit. Think about when each wire will be energized. (I found it helpful to give some wiring legs names, as in computer wiring practice, such as "switched main supply bus.") Test incrementally to make sure the real electrons are doing what you imagined they would do. Don't forget that the problem can be IN the harness, not just at one of the switches.
 
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