Battery draining fast...regulator??

[chuckycheese]

I recently installed a new stator and R/R and nothing has been right since. My battery drains rapidly and the bike isn't charging correctly when it's running. I know the battery is good because it takes a charge and will hold it as long as it isn't in the bike.

I've tried a bunch of things and here's what I've ended up with...the battery will not drain at all when the main fuse is pulled. Everything else can be in place but the main fuse..SO, I think I'm getting it figured out.

According to my wiring chart, the main fuse goes ONLY to the ignition and the regulator. Do you suppose I got a bad regulator? (It's a new one from Rick's). Any and all suggestions would really be appreciated!!:-D

 

[tconroy]

I recently installed a new stator and R/R and nothing has been right since. My battery drains rapidly and the bike isn't charging correctly when it's running. I know the battery is good because it takes a charge and will hold it as long as it isn't in the bike.

I've tried a bunch of things and here's what I've ended up with...the battery will not drain at all when the main fuse is pulled. Everything else can be in place but the main fuse..SO, I think I'm getting it figured out.

According to my wiring chart, the main fuse goes ONLY to the ignition and the regulator. Do you suppose I got a bad regulator? (It's a new one from Rick's). Any and all suggestions would really be appreciated!!:-D

Have you tried putting your ignition to lock or park instead of off and then pulling the key and see what happens?I would say its your ignition. If it was your r/r,would'nt it be overcharging?

 

[chuckycheese]

Thanks

Thanks

Thank you for the suggestions! I don't think it's the ignition because it has a separate fuse and, with it in place, the battery doesn't drain...the only one that seems to do that is the main fuse.

As far as the R/R overcharging, I think it would depend upon the problem. I've heard of people getting defective R/Rs but don't know what the liklihood of that is. I hope someone can offer a solution but I appreciate your thoughts. The sun is shining and I would like to ride!

 

[tconroy]

Thank you for the suggestions! I don't think it's the ignition because it has a separate fuse and, with it in place, the battery doesn't drain...the only one that seems to do that is the main fuse.

As far as the R/R overcharging, I think it would depend upon the problem. I've heard of people getting defective R/Rs but don't know what the liklihood of that is. I hope someone can offer a solution but I appreciate your thoughts. The sun is shining and I would like to ride!

Sorry, I didnt read your post well.Have you checked all grounds?

 

[chuckycheese]

Yes

Yes

Well, here's an update and I'm hopeful it will inspire someone to get me 'back on the road'. I checked my OEM shop manual and all the numbers test correctly for bench testing the R/R...except for one. All are perfectly in range except for the positive to the negative wires on the R/R. It's supposed to be between 35-85 Ohms...instead, it's at about .95...everything else is supposed to be between 5-8 OHMs...and it is..(just about 6.5 OHMs all around).

I think this must be significant but would appreciate confirmation. I still have a hard time believing they would send out a bad R/R, especially considering what a simple device they are, but I'm hopeful I've found the problem. Thanks to all for your welcome advice!:-D

Help, Boony, Earl and other smart people!!!:-s :-s :-s

 

[Boondocks]

...I've tried a bunch of things and here's what I've ended up with...the battery will not drain at all when the main fuse is pulled. Everything else can be in place but the main fuse..SO, I think I'm getting it figured out....

If the battery won't drain when the main fuse is disconnected then the main fuse circuit has to be traced. The leak could be in the wiring harness, the ignition switch, or the R/R.

The wire from the main fuse to the ignition switch is always hot even with the key off. Sometimes the wiring harness under the tank can be rubbed through by vibration against various metal parts and cause a short. That is one possibility. With the ignition key off, take the tank off and inspect the wiring harness for rubs and visual damage. Take the main fuse out, put the test leads on the fuse holder clamps and wiggle the wiring harness to see if this affects the current drain. If so, the ignition hot wire has a current leak (short). If not, remove the hot lead to the R/R. If this stops the current leak, then the R/R is shorting to ground and is faulty. If not, check the ignition switch.

The ignition switch itself can have dirt, water and crud on the contacts which can allow a current drain to ground. Shooting some WD-40 into the ignition key slot wouldn't hurt. You can test the ignition switch by disconnecting the return wire and checking for current flow (with the ignition off) between the return wire and ground. There should be no voltage/current in the return wire with the ignition turned off.

 

[chuckycheese]

Thank you!

Thank you!

Thank you, Boony! I do, so much, appreciate you taking time to write such a detailed list of what to try next...and I shall.

But, what about my R/R readings? When everything else is hooked up, I lose no voltage, whatsoever. Also, the reading that I referenced is totally 'out of whack' with what is supposed to be correct for the R/R OHMs..

One other thing...it looks to me (on my electrical diagram) that the main fuse is isolated from the rest of the bike and wouldn't interfere with any other readings other than the R/R.

 

[Boondocks]

You're welcome.

...But, what about my R/R readings? When everything else is hooked up, I lose no voltage, whatsoever. Also, the reading that I referenced is totally 'out of whack' with what is supposed to be correct for the R/R OHMs..

I don't know what kind of meter you are using, but the ohms test in the manual seems to work accurately only with an analog meter, not a digital one. Digital meters were not in use when these manuals were written. Unless you know how to use an analog meter and use the ohms adjust wheel to properly set it up for an accurate reading, you could get inaccurate results. Obviously, the analog meter must be set to the 1 ohm scale. Are you eyeballing the needle to come up with an estimate of .95 ohms? If you are not certain that you are using the meter properly, you may get inaccurate results.

It could be the R/R, but rather than doing a bench test for ohms (which isn't even covered in the Electrex tests or the Stator Papers, which use the diode check function of a digital meter), I would just remove the red R/R wire from the circuit and see if the current drain stops. If it does, that is the proof of the pudding that the R/R is defective.

One other thing...it looks to me (on my electrical diagram) that the main fuse is isolated from the rest of the bike and wouldn't interfere with any other readings other than the R/R.

I don't have your electrical circuit diagram at hand, but I doubt that it is significantly different than mine. The main fuse is called "main" because it supplies power to the other fuses except for the accessory fuse (which has nothing to do with the operation of the bike). If the main fuse is pulled or is blown, nothing works except connections to the accessory fuse. If your main fuse were isolated from the other fuses, you would be able to pull it, start the bike and everything would work. It is not isolated, and is the main entry point for the power to the other fuses that operate the bike.

If your circuit works like mine, the main fuse is fed by a hot wire connected to the battery/starter solenoid. This same hot feed circuit to the fuse box provides power to the accessory fuse which is hot when the ignition is off. The hot feed goes through the main fuse, and the other side of the powered main fuse goes to the ignition switch. When the switch is off, no other fuse except the accessory fuse is powered. When the switch is turned on, the return wire from the switch is hot and is connected to the supply side of the other fuses in the fuse box. This is how the lights, signals, and ignition fuses are powered, and it all starts in the main fuse.

 

[chuckycheese]

Thanks

Thanks

Thanks a million Philip! I sent you a PM, as well. I do think my "main" is isolated and also that with my R/R disconnected, I have no drain, whatsoever. I have a fuse that is labeled "power source" and I think that is the one that carries power to all of the other fuses. I've been away this evening but will check out both things in the morning. You've always been so helpful and I appreciate it.\\/

My multimeter is digital but the other readings are totally within spec...it's the "hot" wire to the ground Ohm reading that's completely 'out of whack'....:-s

 

[Boondocks]

I edited my first post to remove references to checking leaks from auxiliary fuse circuits. When the ignition key is turned off, the auxiliary fuses are not powered so current drains are not an issue.

If you want to bench test the R/R, I wouldn't try to measure ohms (as specified in the manual) with a digital tester. I get accurate ohm readings when I test with an analog tester, which is what was used when the shop manual specs were developed. I get no ohms readings with three different digital testers, probably because the diodes in the R/R are blocking the reading. I would recommend that you set your digital tester to the diode check function and bench test the R/R as outlined in the Stator Papers.

If you still want to do a resistance test, use an analog meter. It's possible there may be some difference in the ohms specs for a Rick's R/R and an OEM R/R. In any event, if removing the R/R from the circuit stops the current leak, then the R/R is at fault. No further test is necessary.

 

[chuckycheese]

Update

Update

Well, Boony is right about the "main fuse" powering all the other stuff. I disconnected the R/R and pulled all the fuses except the "power source fuse". After that:

Plugged in the main fuse...all is well
Plugged in the ignition....all is well
Plugged in the hot wire on the R/R....all is well (so far, so good!)

Then, I discovered that both the signal fuse and the light fuse have current going through them totalling 1/10 Volt (which is split evenly between the two). I also noticed that the voltage loss measures the same if I put one lead on one side of the signal fuse post and put the other lead on the other side of the light fuse post...and vice versa.

I realize they share ground wires so I pulled my headlight and checked all the common connections...and all look really good. I'm still stumped...help!!

 

[Boondocks]

Your "power source" fuse must be the accessory fuse, which is always powered and has nothing to do with the operation of the bike.

If your signal and light fuses have current going through them with the ignition turned off, then the ignition switch probably has an internal leak allowing current to pass back to the fuse box. Leaky ignition switches are a common cause of battery drain. Remove the wires from the ignition switch (on mine, red = hot and orange = return) that complete the fuse box main circuit. If the current leak stops with the wires disconnected, replace the ignition switch.

If it is a leaky ignition switch, you may be able to revive it by drenching it with WD-40. This could displace water and dissolve the dirt/crud causing the leak.

 

[chuckycheese]

Thanks

Thanks

Thanks for the tip, Philip. How's the best way to get to the ignition wires? Are they in the headlight or do I have to take off the ignition? Also, do I just disconnect them (one or both....seems like just one would do it?).

Also, wouldn't disconnecting it cause the drain to stop even if the switch were good? (The reason I ask this is because it would interrupt the connection within the circuit). In other words, could the current possibly still flow without the ignition connected?

 

[Boondocks]

Thanks for the tip, Philip. How's the best way to get to the ignition wires? Are they in the headlight or do I have to take off the ignition? Also, do I just disconnect them (one or both....seems like just one would do it?).

They are in the headlight shell. You could just disconnect the yellow one, but if the switch itself is grounded it might not stop the leak. I recommend that you disconnect both wires.

Also, wouldn't disconnecting it cause the drain to stop even if the switch were good? (The reason I ask this is because it would interrupt the connection within the circuit).

If the switch were good there would be no drain and no reason to disconnect the wires. A good switch "disconnects" the wires when turned off.

In other words, could the current possibly still flow without the ignition connected?

No, unless there is a short between the red and orange wires before they reach the ignition switch. This is unlikely.

 

[chuckycheese]

Getting there!

Getting there!

Hey Philip,
I think I'm getting there, thanks to you. I disconnected the wires as you instructed. I have 4 wires in the plug (I think because of the "parking" feature.

The current is still there but was reduced when I unplugged it. I jiggled the 4 wires around while checking my voltmeter at the fuse location and the numbers went up and down like crazy. I tried to islolate them and feel almost positive that the variation occurs within the orange wire, alone.

The plug is in good shape and the wires look perfectly fine. I'm also pretty sure that if that's the problem, it's within the plug or at least the first couple of inches past the plug. I'm a little reluctant to cut the wire...what do you think? The orange wires goes straight back to the ignition fuse holder which I find terribly confusing...because there is no ignition fuse connected at this point.

By the way, the problem appears to be towards the bike...not the plug and wires towards the ignition.

 

[Boondocks]

Are you measuring the current leak using the milliamp scale on your meter? A start setting of 200M or 400M DC (whatever is closest on your meter) should work, and then work downwards to the lowest scale that will contain the reading.

What is the reading at the main fuse when the ignition switch is connected? What is it when you disconnect the ignition plug in the headlight shell? Size matters when current leaks. If the current leak is insignificant you may not have to do anything with the plug.

If the current leak with the ignition plug disconnected is still significant, it could be caused by conductive contaminants in the plug. Try blasting the plug with electrical contact cleaner and air pressure, and then spray WD-40 in the plug. A leak is not likely in wires the first couple of inches coming out of the plug because: a.)you could probably see the problem and b.)you can physically separate the wires and there is no way that they could short together.

...The orange wires goes straight back to the ignition fuse holder which I find terribly confusing...because there is no ignition fuse connected at this point....

The orange wire also connects to the signals and lights fuses, and if those fuses are in the holders they will provide a path for the current leak.

 

[chuckycheese]

More

More

Without the ignition plugged in, measuring at the "main" fuse connection with no other fuse in place other than the the "power source", reads 1.3 on the 200mV scale...which I think is .26 Volts.

If I plug in the ignition plug, it changes to 3.1 on the same scale...which I think is .62 Volts.

It would seem to me that neither is good but I know very little about it. I would think that the change in current caused by the jiggling of the wires would mean something bad, either way,...but I can't even figure out what that might be. I'm lost!

 

[Boondocks]

Without the ignition plugged in, measuring at the "main" fuse connection with no other fuse in place other than the the "power source", reads 1.3 on the 200mV scale...which I think is .26 Volts.

If I plug in the ignition plug, it changes to 3.1 on the same scale...which I think is .62 Volts.

It would seem to me that neither is good but I know very little about it. I would think that the change in current caused by the jiggling of the wires would mean something bad, either way,...but I can't even figure out what that might be. I'm lost!

I am trying to have you measure current, not volts. Move the selector on your meter to the 200m setting in the (DC)A (amps) range. We want to measure amps (current flow) in milliamps (thousands of an amp) which is designated as mA, not mV (millivolts - thousands of a volt).

Try it again and report the results.

 

[chuckycheese]

Ok

Ok

OK, I'm gonna try to do as you say. I'm studying my little book and I've got my multimeter in hand...In the morning, I'll get out there and see if I can't give you something better to go on. I would do it now but I don't have a good way to see what I'm doing.

Thank you, Philip!!!:-D :-D :-D

 

[Boondocks]

Voltage Measurements Are Worthless for Evaluating Battery Drain

Voltage Measurements Are Worthless for Evaluating Battery Drain

To give you an example of what a somewhat normal reading should be, I tested the main fuse on my bike with the ignition off. As might be expected, there is a current drain. How large, you may ask. It happens to be 127?A (microamps: 1 microamp = 1/1000 of a milliamp), or 127 millionths of an amp. Would a current drain this small beget a voltage reading. The answer is: Of course. In this case 1.71V. Does this mean anything: Yes. It means I shouldn't use the voltage scale in the first place if I want to know what's going on with a current drain.

At the volume of that current "drain" (not considering normal battery self-discharge) it would take 12.6 years :-D at an hourly rate to discharge 14 amps (the normal rating of a new battery in ampere hours).

I also measured the "power source" accessory fuse circuit which has a normally always on 5-function digital voltmeter connected. This is what is correctly called a parasitic load, one that is connected on purpose and continues to drain power from the battery when the ignition is turned off. With the fuse removed and the 5-function disconnected, voltage and current across the fuse was 0. With the meter connected, it draws 9mA (9 milliamps, or 9/1000 of an amp). This is a very low current drain, and is nothing to worry about unless the bike were stored for a long time without charging the battery. At the hourly rate of 9mA discharge, it would take 65 days to accumulate 14 amps and totally discharge the battery.

Just for the sport of it, I removed the power source fuse and measured the voltage with the add-on voltmeter connected, which would simulate a low level current drain. The battery had just come off the charger, so had a high voltage surface charge. The reading across the fuse clips was 13.2 volts, almost as high as the battery voltage of 13.6 volts! The moral of this story is, again, the voltage readings basically don't reveal squat. If you want to know if a current drain is serious, use the A-mA (amp-milliamp) current scale, not the voltage scale. If a meter which measures current is not available, a test light will work for most purposes because the brightness of the light is a visual indication of the amount of current going through the circuit.

I would recommend that after you read up on the meter settings that you start over by disconnecting the negative battery terminal and test for current drain, not voltage between the cable and the terminal.