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Battery eliminated- $5.95

  • Thread starter Thread starter charbot
  • Start date Start date
C

charbot

Guest
I have a kick-start only '77 gs400 and have been toying with the idea of a battery eliminator cap for a bit now. Yesterday on a whim, I stopped by an electronics store and picked up a 6800uF x 35v electrolytic capacitor for 6 bucks. I Just wired it up this morning and am pleased to say it work it works great! I maybe have to give it an extra kick ...but it starts up and so far run fine.
Just wish I had thought to try this before buying a new battery a few months back (at autozone prices too! >$60)

I may keep the battery on there for a bit, until Im confident that its not going leave me stranded somewhere, but i definitely looking to ditch it altogether and reclaim some space!
This should work on any older bike with a magnetic alternator, and kick start, obviously.
If you dont have a good local electronics store, radioshack sells a 4700 uf cap that should work. Maybe try two of them wired in parallel.
 
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My Commandos came with a capacitor for that. I literally ran it for years with a dead battery, but that was with points. A battery is nice for when you are idling at night in the dark though. Keeps all your lights brighter when the charging system isn't putting out all that much.

Its cool yours will fire the electronic ignition without a battery. I put an aftermarket Boyer ignition on on the Commando, and it won't fire reliably below about 11 volts, so it won't idle well without a battery any more.
 
my bike has points....so electric ignition may present problems...

Update:
So, I rode with it for a bit and the cap does work well and reliably, but the bike definitely needs an extra kick (or a few extra kicks) to start.
Since I have a good battery, which usually starts my old bike on the first kick (so satisfying)and just mounted saddle bags that require me to kickstart off the bike.... the battery eliminator trade-off doesnt seem totally worth it.

However, IT DOES WORK and if your battery is dead, stolen, or if your bike is sitting for long periods without running... this cap might be a useful work -around.
I spliced in a pair of connectors on the V+ and G wires so I can just disconnect the battery and plug the cap back in if necessary.
 
charbot said:
However, IT DOES WORK ...
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it will only work if your GS is older than 1980 AND smaller than 1000cc. :-k

I don't think the thousands ever had a kick starter, and the rest of them lost the kicker for the 1980 model year. :o

.
 
Steve said:
Yeah, but it will only work if your GS is older than 1980 AND smaller than 1000cc. :-k

I don't think the thousands ever had a kick starter, and the rest of them lost the kicker for the 1980 model year. :o

.
Click to expand...

Don't know about the bigger bikes, but my 650 is fairly easy to push start:

choke on, key on, put in 2nd gear ...
standing beside it, both hands on the handlebars, pull the clutch in.
Push push push ... as fast as an old fart can ...
release the clutch for half a second, and pull it again so that it doesn't try to run away from you when it catches.
use the front brake to slow down and stop.
throw your leg over and off you go ...

(or cheat and roll it down a slight hill while sitting on it)

When I bought my bike it needed a new r/r and the battery was just about gone. Over the course of 2 or 3 months the battery gave up the ghost completely.
It took a while till I got the R/R squared away, and putting in a battery before the R/R was done would have been a waste of a battery
For about a year or so, the only way the bike was ever started was a
push start ...
 
I also did this on my 550 only I used a much bigger cap, 14000uF.
 
Adler said:
I also did this on my 550 only I used a much bigger cap, 14000uF.
Click to expand...

How long did you run that setup for, and did it ever cause any issues? I've been thinking about going battery-less on my '79 550. I haven't used the starter in over a month since I've been "testing the waters" of having a kick-only bike.
 
Pendulum said:
How long did you run that setup for, and did it ever cause any issues? I've been thinking about going battery-less on my '79 550. I haven't used the starter in over a month since I've been "testing the waters" of having a kick-only bike.
Click to expand...

Im not the best person to ask about it yet, not only did I do it pretty recently but I also have R/R issues that haven't been fixed yet.
 
We used to do this type of modification routinely on bikes in the 1960's and 1970's as it works well as long as the alternator & RR produce enough to cover ignition requirements during kick starting. It can be helpful to shut off headlight and other loads but the early GS has a headlight switch which should help.

Some areas, such as Canada, required headlight on at all times as a safety feature (studies indicate that it is very effective!) but the switch on my 1979 GS850G was functional excepting that there was a small fin on the lower side of the switch knob which prevented the switch from being moved to the headlight "OFF" position. One small Phillips screw to remove the knob, a couple of minutes to grind the fin away, and the switch now operates nicely. It may make kick starting a bit easier if the headlight is off. The problem in kick or bump starting is the need to turn the alternator fast enough to produce sufficient voltage for the loads so that ignition is able to fire. A capacitor equipped system will often fire easier than one with a low battery.

Adding later stuff like EFI really adds to the problem as the injectors and electric fuel pump really "suck the juice".

The real issue with a bad VRR is if the regulator is bad. A rectifier is easy as many automotive alternator rectifiers will work well and are easy to adapt. Check out the one from a Delco Remy 10SI alternator for example as they are inexpensive (see EBay), robust and easy to install.

HIH

Norm
 
very interesting read...I would really like to go this way. So if anyone has more information it will be gratly appreciated....but first, I have to get her running!
 
It may make kick starting a bit easier if the headlight is off. The problem in kick or bump starting is the need to turn the alternator fast enough to produce sufficient voltage for the loads so that ignition is able to fire.
Click to expand...
My lights are always "on" and havent done the switch mod, so that may have made it more reluctant to start. I did notice that with the cap, if I was able to kick it "just right" - kinda fast, with the longest kick stroke possible-
i could get it to fire right away. Perhaps a larger cap value would also help here.

Another idea, found in a thread somewhere here, is to just get a small 12v sealed lead acid battery from radioshack. about $24-34 depending on the amps.
not as small as a cap, but smaller and easier to hide than a reg battery. Also, way cheaper than sealed "motorcycle" batts.
 
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Adler said:
Im not the best person to ask about it yet, not only did I do it pretty recently but I also have R/R issues that haven't been fixed yet.
Click to expand...

Well I guess I won't be doing this mod for a bit, then.
 
charbot said:
Another idea, found in a thread somewhere here, is to just get a small 12v sealed lead acid battery from radioshack. about $24-34 depending on the amps.
not as small as a cap, but smaller and easier to hide than a reg battery. Also, way cheaper than sealed "motorcycle" batts.
Click to expand...

That's what I do, $17 scooter battery from cycle gear. Got one in each of my 750's

It's tucked between the chain and brake brace, at the back of the engine. Only as wide as a reg/reg. Gotta really get up in there to see it.:D

suz.jpg


suzbat.JPG
 
Nice...that thing is crazy,man!

You remember what battery size you used?
 
Hi guys,

Newbie question.... Is the scooter bettery good for electronic ignition or does it only work to make kick starting a bit easier?
 
charbot said:
Nice...that thing is crazy,man!

You remember what battery size you used?
Click to expand...

Thanks. Still have one of the boxes, it says duraboost CB3L-B. Still $17(you'll have to select the model from a drop down menu):
http://www.cyclegear.com/eng/product/batteries/web1001893

Not sure how the other scooter sizes compare. All that matters is you get a 12 volt one. If you're not on a budget, you can get pretty compact with the A123 cell based batteries and still have enough juice for the starter on a big motor.

drivera84, scooter battery provides plenty of juice for my electronic ignition to fire before it's running and getting a boost from the charging circuit.

Definitely make sure your charging circuit is tip top and wired nicely(upgrade to a good reg/rec if needed). You can ride all day on a full size bat if you're not using the starter, but it doesn't take much to drain a scooter battery that isn't getting a charge. Good reference for modern reg/recs:
http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-tri...-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html
 
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