Battery Wouldn't Crank the bike this morning... Quick Charging Question.

[Darin Jordan]

I've put about 5,000 miles on my bike this summer, commuting round trip 30-miles to work each day, as well as running across the lake from Seattle up to Redmond for school twice a week. Also have made a few long distance trips over East of the mountains...

Bike has been running great.

On a couple of occasions, I've noticed that the cranking on a cold start was a TAD slow.

This morning, however, it was very slow, to the point where it simply stopped turning over. Lights and all other electrical indicators appeared to be bright.

I jumped the battery (using one of my 4S Lipo (14.4V) R/C Boat batteries) and it started up immediately. Lights got REALLY bright (brighter than usual), but that doesn't surprise me much with the additional battery voltage attached.

I haven't checked out the charging system yet, but will go through the stator papers and am planning on doing that entire swap here soon.

In the meantime, my question is simple, though I was having a hard time finding anything using the search...

CHARGING maintenance?? Even if I'm riding the bike daily, two 15-mile stints, should I be charging up the battery separately once a month or at some other periodic interval??? I haven't charged it at all, assuming the bikes charging system would maintain it if I were riding it every day.

Am I wrong to think that??

I'd appreciate knowing, so I can stop and buy a charger and battery tender on the way home tonight (after I likely have to jump-start the bike again! )

Thanks,

 

[Darin Jordan]

I suppose I should clarify... when I say "Quick Charging Question", I meant that the question would be simple, and hopefully quick to answer...

NOT, that I was wanting to do a "Quick" charge...

 

[tom203]

Do the charging tests, that part about lights getting really bright with jumper battery is telling you something- you might find your R/R has been overcharging your battery and weakened it. I don't think you need a battery charger- you run it often enough, but a battery tender is a good idea if bike sits idle for a few months.

 

[Guest]

CHARGING maintenance?? Even if I'm riding the bike daily, two 15-mile stints, should I be charging up the battery separately once a month or at some other periodic interval??? I haven't charged it at all, assuming the bikes charging system would maintain it if I were riding it every day.

Am I wrong to think that??

I'd appreciate knowing, so I can stop and buy a charger and battery tender on the way home tonight (after I likely have to jump-start the bike again! )

Thanks,

Yup you were wrong to think that, welcome to the club of the crappy GS charging system. Print out the Stator papers, get a note pad and buy a decent meter and get busy. More then likely here is what you'll end up having to do, new stator, new R/R (upgrade to a series R/R) and probably a new battery. Add a couple more - grounds, clean all your electrical and or replace any bad/burnt connections. check your fuse box as well, they do go bad. I suspect your battery may have been already been cratered, put it on a charge and see if it holds. You'll need a good battery to do all the tests.

 

[barnbiketom]

I've been finding that unless you have a GOOD quality battery, it will probably last one or two years at the most. that said, I'm really suspect of bikes that come in and when i work on them, the owner states "it's a new battery.." but wont crank.

I don't know about your battery, but if the charging tests show good values, then try to do a load test on that battery.
You also mentioned that while trying to start it the lights remained bright. Was t that DURING CRANKING? if so then i'd look at voltage drop across the starting circuit. wires,soleniod and starter windings.
If it was cranking and came to a grunting halt, and you let off the starter button THEN the lights got bright, it could be the battery has just stated to go bad , with no reserve capacity for AMPS, but the lights draw so much less this is kinda hard to tell..

 

[Darin Jordan]

I've been finding that unless you have a GOOD quality battery, it will probably last one or two years at the most. that said, I'm really suspect of bikes that come in and when i work on them, the owner states "it's a new battery.." but wont crank.

Interesting... Well... the battery WAS "recently purchased", but now that I think about it, that was probably about 18-months ago...

The lights definitely dimmed when trying to crank it. When I connected the 4S (14.4V) Lipo pack to it as a jumper, the lights got considerably brighter and the bike cranked over immediately. In fact, I don't think it's ever started that fast before!

When I did the resto, which was a little over a year ago, I went through all the wiring connections and cleaned them with wire brushes, etc., and tested to make sure they were good.

I also have done the starter relay mod, and cleaned up the wiring again.

Here is what I'm trying to understand, and I guess the basis for my question:

ON a FULLY FUNCTIONAL, properly operating system, factory or replacement/modified stator and R/R... should the battery be expected to be charged, or do you have to periodically charge it (monthly??).

I'm not the kid of person to waste a lot of time dinking with stuff and trying to band-aide... I don't have that kind of free-time...

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if I should spend a lot of time checking and verifying and ???, or if I should just order the parts and do the stator and R/R upgrade and be done with it! Is that what is needed to truly fix any charging issues?? I have all of the Stator Papers printed out here at my desk to research doing just that.

Guess prudence would have me at least verify that the wiring isn't an issue. At this point, I can't tell if it's just a bad battery, bad charging system, or both...

If someone would tell me (simple Yes, do it, or No, you have to look deeper) if doing the Stator and R/R replacement, as described in the Stator Papers, would fix any charging system issues from this point forward (assuming all the wiring connections are solid), that's what I'll do!

 

[tkent02]

All bad info. You don't need a charger, or a tender, riding a correctly maintained GS is all it takes to keep the battery up. The key is correctly maintained. I leave my bikes a month at a time quite often when I'm away working, never use a tender, my batteries last for many years. The bikes always start right up, even in freezing temps. The difference is that the charging systems are all working correctly, I keep them that way.

I will charge the battery if it doesn't get ridden for more than a couple months, not a tender but a regular charger for the correct amount of time.
I do the checks in The Stator Papers when I get a new GS, and clean the corrosion off all of the the connectors. Once a year or so I recheck the tests, or at least do the quick check. I look at the water level in the battery once in a while. I have never had a charging system failure in all of the GSes I have owned, (many bikes over four decades) although quite a few were not charging when I bought them. All of the ones not charging when I bought them had corroded connectors in the charging system.

It's all in the maintenance.

 

[Guest]

[ON a FULLY FUNCTIONAL, properly operating system, factory or replacement/modified stator and R/R... should the battery be expected to be charged, or do you have to periodically charge it (monthly??).

I'm not the kid of person to waste a lot of time dinking with stuff and trying to band-aide... I don't have that kind of free-time...

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if I should spend a lot of time checking and verifying and ???, or if I should just order the parts and do the stator and R/R upgrade and be done with it! Is that what is needed to truly fix any charging issues?? I have all of the Stator Papers printed out here at my desk to research doing just that.

Guess prudence would have me at least verify that the wiring isn't an issue. At this point, I can't tell if it's just a bad battery, bad charging system, or both...

If someone would tell me (simple Yes, do it, or No, you have to look deeper) if doing the Stator and R/R replacement, as described in the Stator Papers, would fix any charging system issues from this point forward (assuming all the wiring connections are solid), that's what I'll do!

Of course your lights are going to dim when you start cranking the bike. The starter takes a ton of energy so it is going to dim the lights. I usually turn my lights off when I start then flick them back on.

You still need to do the tests and make sure where the problem is. Just going out and replacing everything may not solve what is going on. That is why they are tests. As for charging the battery, when I park my bike after a ride, my battery tender gets hooked up regardless.

 

[rteam2]

+1 on MrBill

While I'm certain there are many here who have charging systems which work well, I have to charge mine every few weeks or so. I can tell it needs to have to tender put on it overnight when it starts having a harder time starting, but to me that's an easy temporary solution. Someday I'll likely address my charging system but for now this works, and may be a good short term fix for you as well.

Let the flaming begin!!

 

[Darin Jordan]

Of course your lights are going to dim when you start cranking the bike. The starter takes a ton of energy so it is going to dim the lights. I usually turn my lights off when I start then flick them back on.

Unless I'm missing something on my bike... there isn't any way to turn the lights on and off... it's always on...

I'll be sure to run all the tests, just to verify...

 

[Guest]

Unless I'm missing something on my bike... there isn't any way to turn the lights on and off... it's always on...

I'll be sure to run all the tests, just to verify...

Well I would tell you the trick though I won't, that is part of the problem with the GS system, leave the light off and it will eventually cook the stator. I learned that the hard way.

 

[Darin Jordan]

OK... I just took a look and I have an AGM battery, 220CCA, 15L sized, in there... I measured it... it's down to 10.57V...

Once the bike is started, as long as I don't let it sit for too long at <2000 RPM, it runs great... I'm jump starting it with a 14.4V Lipo from one of my R/C Boats...

I picked up a new Lead-Acid battery, but need to go home and fill and charge it. Then I can run all the tests in the Stator Papers.

Looks like I purchased this AGM battery in December of 2010, or early January of 2011, so I guess it's older than I thought... about 22-months.

If the charging system checks out, I'll assume that the battery croaked, but I'd kind of expect to get more than <2 years out of a 90.00 battery.

I went over all of the connections I could get to and they all seem sound and clean.

Question: Is there anything special one has to do to the stock charging system in order to USE an AGM cell? Mine is all stock. Assuming it's working correctly, would the stock system ruin a battery like this, or can it just be hooked up and used as is??

 

[tkent02]

Before you fill the new battery, make sure the old one is toast. An AGM battery should last a LOT longer than that. It's your charging system causing the low battery voltage.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Before you fill the new battery, make sure the old one is toast. An AGM battery should last a LOT longer than that. It's your charging system causing the low battery voltage.

Thanks... I will do just that. I guess I'd better pick up an "AGM" compatible charger on the way home.

What is special about the AGM chargers??

I ask, because, due to my R/C hobby, I have some very nice (and expensive) chargers that can do Pb, LiIon, LiPoly, NiMH, and NiCd, at rates that are plenty stout to charge one of these batteries.

Just wondering if it can be used to cycle/charge the AGM style cells??

 

[tkent02]

They don't need anything fancy. A functional GS charging system is all it needs, or a low amperage car battery charger. AGM is just a lead acid battery with the acid in a sponge, it's nothing special electrically. Been running them for years, none have failed yet.

 

[Darin Jordan]

They don't need anything fancy. A functional GS charging system is all it needs, or a low amperage car battery charger. AGM is just a lead acid battery with the acid in a sponge, it's nothing special electrically. Been running them for years, none have failed yet.

Thank you very much for being patient and taking the time to answer.

Charging system will get checked out, and I'll see if this battery will take a charge tonight.

Also, I did go ahead and order the ElectroSport Industries Stator and R/R... Once I know the wiring is good, it's going in, regardless of the state of the current Stator and R/R... Reliable is a good thing!

 

[tom203]

Also, I did go ahead and order the ElectroSport Industries Stator and R/R... Once I know the wiring is good, it's going in, regardless of the state of the current Stator and R/R... Reliable is a good thing!

Not to burst your bubble, but Electrosport stuff doesn't get rave reviews- there are better choices. Do yourself a favor and check out the charging tests (after your battery is fully charged) BEFORE you switch stuff out- you might get lucky. Don't guess-test!

 

[tkent02]

Not to burst your bubble, but Electrosport stuff doesn't get rave reviews- there are better choices. Do yourself a favor and check out the charging tests (after your battery is fully charged) BEFORE you switch stuff out- you might get lucky. Don't guess-test!

Also, if I did have to buy an RR, it would be a series RR.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Not to burst your bubble, but Electrosport stuff doesn't get rave reviews- there are better choices. Do yourself a favor and check out the charging tests (after your battery is fully charged) BEFORE you switch stuff out- you might get lucky. Don't guess-test!

Hmmmm... well that's not good news...

So WHY does everyone refer to the "Stator Papers" when considering this stuff, and WHY is the Electrosport stuff what's recommended?? Very confusing for those of us who use this reference material...

Are the other options on here somewhere??

NO worries on the testing... I will go through everything thoroughly and test it... I'm pretty methodical at that kind of thing...

 

[Darin Jordan]

Also, if I did have to buy an RR, it would be a series RR.

It would be really helpful if there was a list that just said:

"Replace the Stator with XXXX####XXX"
"Replace the RR with XXXX####XXX"