Bike is down! timing chain jumped?

[GabrielGoes]

I was in the carb/fuel section of the forums and i found out it has nothing to do with my carbs, a friend of mine took a look at it and said he thinks i jumped the timing chain, the motor turns over very well with the starter but it just wont fire up! it progressively got worse over the past few weeks and recently today it will not fire up here are the things i am almost 100% sure it is not : carbs, petcock, valve adjustments, nor is it the battery. We went into the points cover and saw that the points were not opening... he re gapped them so they started to open again and still nothing, but we noticed that while trying to start the bike once in a while we heard a loud cracking noise comming from the engine and also a big puff of smoke came out of the far right carb pod filter! mis firing.. any ideas? is my motor toast?

 

[tkent02]

is my motor toast?

Um, my crystal ball says no. But it's been wrong before.

Did you check the cam timing or are you just guessing at it?

Somehow I get the impression I could have that fine machine purring like a sewing machine in about two hours. Good luck!

 

[GabrielGoes]

Um, my crystal ball says no. But it's been wrong before.

Did you check the cam timing or are you just guessing at it?

Somehow I get the impression I could have that fine machine purring like a sewing machine in about two hours. Good luck!

haha that DOES give me confidence im gonna go into the valve cover again, and yes my friend WAS just guessing, we also noticed that the thing that rotates the motor in the points cover does not spin true and it is all warped looking when it spins is this normal?

 

[Guest]

verify the plug wires are on the correct cylinders...

Left coil feeds cylinders 1 & 4, right coil feeds 2 & 3

 

[Suzuki_Don]

My first question is: "What makes you think the cam chain has skipped a tooth". Something has to cause this,the motor doesn't skip a tooth for no reason. Pull the valve cover, check the cam timing with #1 on TDC on compression stroke. If that checks out OK then do a compression test and record readings. Was the motor running OK before this happened?

 

[GabrielGoes]

verify the plug wires are on the correct cylinders...

Left coil feeds cylinders 1 & 4, right coil feeds 2 & 3

plug wires are good!

My first question is: "What makes you think the cam chain has skipped a tooth". Something has to cause this,the motor doesn't skip a tooth for no reason. Pull the valve cover, check the cam timing with #1 on TDC on compression stroke. If that checks out OK then do a compression test and record readings. Was the motor running OK before this happened?

i dont know my friend said he thinks maybe i ran the bike too hard and it might have stretched the chain out causing it to skip? im no expert on this... the motor and the bike in general was running tip top shape only untill recently, i tore the carbs down completely etc. because it did seem like a fuel problem...one thing i know for sure is that there is a really ugly crunching noise comming from the motor ever few seconds or so while spinning the motor with the starter (jumped from a car), yes we were killing the starter but not for too long... is there an actual #1 printed on the cam chain to check when the motor is TDC ?like i said im no expert on motors infact iv never been in them but i have done everything else, thank you for your help guys

 

[Adler]

we also noticed that the thing that rotates the motor in the points cover does not spin true and it is all warped looking when it spins is this normal?

Do you mean that it has a lobe? Its supposed to have a lobe, kind of like the tappets on the cam. This is what makes the points open and close.

 

[GabrielGoes]

Do you mean that it has a lobe? Its supposed to have a lobe, kind of like the tappets on the cam. This is what makes the points open and close.

yes i think your right, i thought it was supposed to spin perfectly not all wobly as you say a "lobe".. anyways i dont think thats really a problem... all i know is that my bike was running like an absolute champ and all of the sudden it wouldnt start in the mornings, now it wont start at all, my motor turns really good and it just doesnt want to fire up, big popping noises from the carbs while trying, and also a pretty noticeable crunching noise comming from the motor while trying... also the points were not opening up when we checked my friend fixed that.. still no firing though.. condensers look fine but i guess you cant really tell by looking

 

[cowboyup3371]

Gabriel, from all of the posts I think I've read by you, I've yet to see a picture of anything you have done. Do you have a digital camera or do you think you can get your hands on one? Why don't you slow down a little bit, get into the bike YOURSELF, and take pictures. Go get yourself a Photobucket account and throw those pictures up here. It will help us out a whole lot to see what you think you are talking about and help guide you through things easier.

 

[GabrielGoes]

Gabriel, from all of the posts I think I've read by you, I've yet to see a picture of anything you have done. Do you have a digital camera or do you think you can get your hands on one? Why don't you slow down a little bit, get into the bike YOURSELF, and take pictures. Go get yourself a Photobucket account and throw those pictures up here. It will help us out a whole lot to see what you think you are talking about and help guide you through things easier.

hmm your right. i Have been in the bike myself! i just had a friend next to me... i dont know what to take pictures of though everything i said is pretty self explanitory except the points thing i could take pics of that, i mean i can post a video of my bike trying to start and popping.. if that would help if theres anything specific i can take a picture of let me know seriously i have a photobucket accnt and a digital camera and everything! thanks for reading guys im gonna go home soon and take some pics like cowboy said, sorry to just leave you guys in the dark

 

[cowboyup3371]

Let's see a picture of the cam chain and we can tell if it is off. Let's see what the plugs look like. If anything post pictures of how you checked the valves. Etc Etc Etc.

 

[Big T]

It's extremely unlikely you cam chain has "jumped". You would have had to be running it to redline and beyond, constantly, with a faulty tensioner, for that to happen

It's most probable that your point and condensors are bad, especially if you don't know how old they are. All that popping and spitting are symptomatic, especially the part about it running so well recently.

Don't you have a service manual for the bike? Check your cam chain timing per the diagram, then confirm your valve clearances, then toss those points and buy a Dyna S.

The clanging you are hearing on the left is most likely the starter clutch starting to fail, or, just being irritated from being jump started all the time

 

[raistian77]

also chain strech seems to be rare on these motors.

 

[Guest]

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1340

Make sure you set the gap as per the manual and then the timing statically. It needs to pretty spot on or you'll never get it started.

 

[cyclefvr2]

could have been flooded, my bike got harder and harder to start in the mornings, and i flooded it a few times before. change the plugs first its the easiest, check the timing, as for no fire on points?, dunno, maybe a bad condencer, check the points again,use a book

 

[GabrielGoes]

then toss those points and buy a Dyna S.

The clanging you are hearing on the left is most likely the starter clutch starting to fail, or, just being irritated from being jump started all the time

this is kinda what i was thinking and i think you hit the nail on the head with that one, as this was a progressive thing getting worse and to the point of not even starting.. i think the valves and chain are all in somewhat good condition, im not gonna even post pics right now im like 100% sure it is the points and condensors, my friend did scare me and say the motor was pretty much toasted etc. cam chains etc. thank you all for your replies every one of them helped a lot seriously


edit: heh its funny because i act like the problem is all solved and everything it would be funny as hell if it wasnt the probem... anyways thank you all again

 

[Suzuki_Don]

The condensers can be tested, typically they are .25 microfarads.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Gabriel, please don't think...know. Don't second guess anything until you have laid eyes on everything.

 

[Big T]

this is kinda what i was thinking and i think you hit the nail on the head with that one, as this was a progressive thing getting worse and to the point of not even starting.. i think the valves and chain are all in somewhat good condition, im not gonna even post pics right now im like 100% sure it is the points and condensors, my friend did scare me and say the motor was pretty much toasted etc. cam chains etc. thank you all for your replies every one of them helped a lot seriously


edit: heh its funny because i act like the problem is all solved and everything it would be funny as hell if it wasnt the probem... anyways thank you all again

Here's a simple test.

Confirm that your points are opening

Leave the cover off

Try to start your bike in the dark - are there sparks at the points?

Yes = bad condensors

 

[tkent02]

plug wires are good!



i dont know my friend said he thinks maybe i ran the bike too hard and it might have stretched the chain out causing it to skip?

Racers run the same engine wide open for hours at a time with no problems, I doubt you ran it too hard. A lot of us run the dog **** out of them for years and years, flog them mercilessly, again no worries.
Quit guessing and fix all the crap everyone on this forum says you need to fix, quit listening to people who now nothing. Did you even adjust the valves yet? Jumped time! Right! that's enough already, it's getting lame.