blue/white smoke out of exhaust

[earlfor]

Well, at least doing a carb synch will only cost you time and not money. :clap:

 

[cableguy]

This is pure BS. Oil pressure is not dependant on oil quantity, unless there isn't any.

Oil coming through the rings is not dependant on oil pressure anyway, there is no oil pressure being pumped to the rings. Oil is pumped as far as the engine bearings, and thats it.

So I eat crow on that one. After a bit of more focused research I have to concur that oil pressure is not dictated by oil volume. It is possible to add so much that it foams in the crankcase and can't be pumped, causing (ironically) a drop in pressure. That clearly isn't the problem here though.

 

[eil]

I have a similar issue, minus the smoke coming out of the exhaust... my #1 cylinder isn't firing despite having (some) spark and clean carbs. Pulling the #1 plug boot does nothing to the engine, but pulling #4 stalls it. I'm in the midst of doing the coil relay mod. Perhaps I just need a good carb sync as well? I'm not sure when I'll have the funds to buy the Morgan Carbtune, though.

While reading the carb section in the FSM for my bike, I noticed that they called for (red?) loctite on the throttle sync adjuster screws and lock nuts. If you didn't do that, maybe yours have worked themselves loose?

 

[earlfor]

I have a similar issue, minus the smoke coming out of the exhaust... my #1 cylinder isn't firing despite having (some) spark and clean carbs. Pulling the #1 plug boot does nothing to the engine, but pulling #4 stalls it. I'm in the midst of doing the coil relay mod. Perhaps I just need a good carb sync as well? I'm not sure when I'll have the funds to buy the Morgan Carbtune, though.

While reading the carb section in the FSM for my bike, I noticed that they called for (red?) loctite on the throttle sync adjuster screws and lock nuts. If you didn't do that, maybe yours have worked themselves loose?

I've never used Loctite on the adjustment screws. However, Blue would be more than strong enough. Red is meant for setting studs or things you really don't intend to ever be moving again. Don't use RED on those adjustment screws. I think there would be a excellent chance of stripping the screw threads before the Loctite would break loose.

 

[GateKeeper]

Thanks for the tips guys, I do have some blue Loctite, but I don't know if I will use it or not....

Once the carb tune is hooked up, I will know if there is a sync problem and proceed from there....

I was going to go to work, but didn't trust the bike, and not sure if I should even be riding it the way it is, I don't want to screw anything up worse than what it is, or worse yet, stall out somewhere and have to walk home......

so the bike is parked, and I stayed home, not really all that bad come to think of it....LOL

.

 

[GateKeeper]

Well.....

I went to the garage to see what I can see on the bike. I removed the drain plug on the #1 carb, lots of gas poured out, and all nice and clean, so no crap in there. I then started up the bike and let it run for a bit, #2,3,4 exhaust pipes got nice and hot, #1 not so much, nice and cold, so I got the screwdriver and tapped around the carb bodies, removed the wire to the number one plug and put it back on a few times, and idle dropped and raised, and I revved and poked and prodded, and after a bit the #1 pipe started getting hot, and hotter, and so on...

After a bit it was almost hot to touch, but not as hot as the other 3......so there is a problem.....

one thing to note, once it was hot and seemed to be running, I saw less and less of the smoke out of the exhaust, but the only thing I still don't like is that it's not as hot as the other 3......

something is not right, question is what.....

I don't think its a sync issue, but possibly crap in the carbs, what a pain that would be, as with these bikes it's not the easiest to get the carbs out and back in.....

I don't want to go down this road, but it seems I just might have to.....

.

 

[tkent02]

Synchronize first, you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[earlfor]

If all four carbs were in synch, removing the plug lead from any one cylinder would result in a slight rpm drop. In your case, removing the #1 lead causes no change, so #1 is/was not working. It could be blocked from sediment/trash AND not synched.
Removing the #4 lead causes the engine to die. With #1 not working and removing the #4 lead, the bike should still run/idle on 2 and 3, but it doesn't. That tells me that #4 is making most of the power and probably more than 2,3 combined. Once pipes are too hot to touch, I don't know how one could determine which pipe was hotter than another. (not without a heat sensor gun anyway)

It's possible you have knocked the blockage in #1 loose, but because the heat difference is still there, I would still put gauges on it a check the synch. That is the only way you're going to know for sure whether it's a blockage problem or a out of synch problem. I have had good luck with putting fuel injector cleaner in the gas for clearing up slight debris/varnish problems. I follow the amount specified on the can.

 

[Starion007]

I mentioned oil and filter because you said that was the only thing you did and it started smoking. In my experience a new problem is usually related to the last repair made.
Since you know you put in the right amount, cool.

I suggest you take the hard plastic plug cap and cut off about a 1/4" and screw the cap back on before syncing the carbs, that bike has 48K on it of they are more than a few years old you can get a bad connection at the cap, I have used this trick on several bikes that had skips/misses in them.

To the other guy;
The oil filter relief valve is not BS, its a fundamental part of a pressurized system, on mine it's smack dab in the middle of the filter.

 

[GateKeeper]

Synchronize first, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Will be doing a sync this Saturday, Spyug is bring his carb tune, and we shall see....

If all four carbs were in synch, removing the plug lead from any one cylinder would result in a slight rpm drop. In your case, removing the #1 lead causes no change, so #1 is/was not working. It could be blocked from sediment/trash AND not synched.
Removing the #4 lead causes the engine to die. With #1 not working and removing the #4 lead, the bike should still run/idle on 2 and 3, but it doesn't. That tells me that #4 is making most of the power and probably more than 2,3 combined. Once pipes are too hot to touch, I don't know how one could determine which pipe was hotter than another. (not without a heat sensor gun anyway)

It's possible you have knocked the blockage in #1 loose, but because the heat difference is still there, I would still put gauges on it a check the synch. That is the only way you're going to know for sure whether it's a blockage problem or a out of synch problem. I have had good luck with putting fuel injector cleaner in the gas for clearing up slight debris/varnish problems. I follow the amount specified on the can.

I can't put my hands on the 3 pipes once hot, but the number 1 I can put my fingers on it and hold for much longer than I can on the other 3, I know it's not scientific but without a heat sensor it's the best I can do for now.

I just put in fresh gas 91 octane, there should not be any issues with the gas, and I usually go through a tank in about 10 days or so, so it's not sitting around, prior to the 91 I was running 87 octane.

And I just might have knocked the debris out of where ever it was, so it might just be a temp fix.

I mentioned oil and filter because you said that was the only thing you did and it started smoking. In my experience a new problem is usually related to the last repair made.
Since you know you put in the right amount, cool.

I suggest you take the hard plastic plug cap and cut off about a 1/4" and screw the cap back on before syncing the carbs, that bike has 48K on it of they are more than a few years old you can get a bad connection at the cap, I have used this trick on several bikes that had skips/misses in them.

To the other guy;
The oil filter relief valve is not BS, its a fundamental part of a pressurized system, on mine it's smack dab in the middle of the filter.

It's the same filter I have used in the past, no change in that respect, but it could be a dud, I do have one more, I did buy 3 of them at once, the oil is a different brand.

I cut all 4 leads already, this was done months ago, so hopefully that is not the issue, there are some pictures of this here on the site in another thread. I did check the resistance and all that before as well....see the other thread, and I did do the coil relay mod as well.


I am still open to suggestions, and will try anything....

I am even thinking of pulling the carbs to check them again and I will rebuild them again if need be, I was even thinking of going pods this time around, but I don't want to introduce more to the problem.....

Going to try and ride to work tomorrow, hopefully I can make it there, and more importantly back......after all it's Friday and it's the weekend....

.

 

[tkent02]

To the other guy;
The oil filter relief valve is not BS, its a fundamental part of a pressurized system, on mine it's smack dab in the middle of the filter.

A rubber port? Maybe that's a Fram thing. All of them I have seen, it is a steel flap with a spring behind it. It is for when the fiter gets clogged, oil will bypass the clogged filter. Not likely on a brand new filter as soon as it was installed.

 

[GateKeeper]

Well it's getting worse and not better......

This morning was a no go.....

put key in, turned to on position, and hit the start button, cranks and cranks and almost started, then it did for a bit, then it died, then it wouldn't start, full choke, no throttle, cranked and cranked, fired up for a bit, enough to get it back into the garage, parked it, turned it off, and took the son's car to work.....

#%$#$@%^@#$% %#@$%@#$%#@ @%$#@%@#$%@

where is the nearest dump.........

@#%$@#%$# @#%$ %$#%#@$^

can't wait for the weekend so I can spend my day's wrenching....

time to buy a new bike, or at least one that is no more than 5-8 years old....

.

 

[rustybronco]

Dumb question, is it low on fuel (out of?) and do you have it on reserve?

 

[GateKeeper]

Not a dumb question at all, but tank is almost full probably 3/4 of a tank at the moment, and I did visually check (no open flames used,,,,lol ) I do have the gauge but I opened up the gas cap and looked inside...


I am starting to think there is crap in the carbs, possibly, the last tank of gas I put in was the 91 octane, before that it has always been 87, maybe the higher octane has loosed up some crap and it's now fuked up the carbs and blocked some passage or another....

It's now the only thing I can think of..

.

 

[rustybronco]

It's now the only thing I can think of..

.

Or fuel isn't getting to the carbs for some reason. (petcock?)

 

[GateKeeper]

At this point anything is possible....

It did eventually start and long enough to drive it back into the garage, and I turned her off, and had to get to work...

So right now I can't do much (at work) I took yesterday off because of the bike to try and sort it out, but seems I didn't get it done...

It will now have to wait until after work, and or the weekend....

I see a tear down of the carbs in my future, just to make sure nothing is blocked and to make sure they are all in working order....

I will check on the operation of the petcock as well.....

.

 

[spyug]

You've been hanging around me too much and my missfortunes are rubbing off on you.

As I said on the phone, I'd bet dollars to donuts you've got some plugged jets or passages. I've had those symptoms so many times with the Kat and the 550s.

I think you can speed up the process if you can pull of the carbs tonight and dunk them again. I'll be down in the morning and help you get them all back together and on.

To check the tank for possible contaminants, take the hose from the carb but still on the tank and pour a healthy dollop into a clean glass or plastic cup or tub and check for floaters. I'll bet you'll find some. something like this:

That was from the 550 tank prior to me cleaning and sealing it. It doesn't take much to mess up those carbs.

Don't fret we'll have you up and running tomorrow........as long as the beer, slivo and stogies don't slow us down

cheers man.

 

[GateKeeper]

no beer, no stogies, no slivo......until the bike is up and running.....LOL

as long as we pace ourselves, we should be fine, the bike will be running, and we will need to take a snooze after all the hard work, the beer, the slivo and the stogies

I should setup the hammocks in the backyard......hehehehehe

and here I thought I was done with wrenching, well at least on this bike, figured my only wrenching would be on the Yamaha's......

ohhhh well.

.

 

[earlfor]

I understand your distaste for pulling the carbs. I've never minded tearing down and rebuilding carbs, but on some GS models, and particularly my 1150, it was Hell getting them off and double Hell putting them back on. It took me longer to remove and install them than it did to tear'em apart, clean and reassemble them. heh This frustration too shall pass............just keep telling yourself that! You be fine. Just a little glitch in the er ahhh maintenance profile. heheh Chit happens as they say. It reminds me of me a while back when I adjusted the valves, put the valve cover back on and immediately started getting oil leaks all over the engine. I took that blasted bike apart and put it back together nine times in a week before getting the leaks stopped. Talk about frustration......... That week, had anyone offered, they could have bought a 03 Bandit 12S for $5. LOL

 

[GateKeeper]

I understand your distaste for pulling the carbs. I've never minded tearing down and rebuilding carbs, but on some GS models, and particularly my 1150, it was Hell getting them off and double Hell putting them back on. It took me longer to remove and install them than it did to tear'em apart, clean and reassemble them. heh This frustration too shall pass............just keep telling yourself that! You be fine. Just a little glitch in the er ahhh maintenance profile. heheh Chit happens as they say. It reminds me of me a while back when I adjusted the valves, put the valve cover back on and immediately started getting oil leaks all over the engine. I took that blasted bike apart and put it back together nine times in a week before getting the leaks stopped. Talk about frustration......... That week, had anyone offered, they could have bought a 03 Bandit 12S for $5. LOL

as you say, it's not the carbs themselves that I am worried about are not willing to do, it's getting out and back in place......that is the bugger....

I always said I was going to go to pods to make it easier in case of such a issue, and here I am in the exact predicament I was not wanting to be...

It's just frustrating, but chit happens, and it could happen to any bike at anytime....contamination in the fuel system is a possibility for any bike...

your right, at this point I would give it away,,,,,well almost

well I just hope it's some dirty crap and nothing more, a few hours wrenching on a rain Saturday can't be that bad.....can it.....LOL

Thanks for the words of encouragement....

Cheers

.