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Cam caps missing/broken bolts. GK.

Redman

Redman

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Two of the four cam caps have one of the four bolts missing/broke on this GK I got last fall. Both are on outboard end of the caps. I went to loosen/take out another of the bolts from another cam cap, it immeadaitly broke with very little force. Yes, it broke real easy while trying to back it out, like it was already cracked. YIKES, now I have 3 of the four cam caps with one broken bolt (each on outboard side). Some big bull of a PO must have really overtourqued them all. SCHESSCH. Makes me hesitant to touch any of the other bolts.

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I am not asking how to extract the broken bolts. I realize that is take off head . . EZOut . . or take to shop . . maybe more expensive than its worth.

What I am asking is: Anybody know if this is not such a probelm, can run a long time like this? Or.. is the cam sure to flex and have catastophic failure at some point?

I have been ignoring this for a couple months, but what should I really think? And also concider that it still isnt running too well.
 
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I have the same issue with just one. Just pulled the cams on mine and the PO had stripped one of the bolts and just sort of let it sit there.

It can't be a good thing and should be fixed I would assume. A helicoil should work well and not be that difficult I would think..........see what others say.
 
I would think that using an impact screwdriver and gently tapping it in the "tighten" - then "loosen" position would help "break free" the remaining fasteners without breaking them off ... THEN use the regular screwdriver.

Good luck!!
 
I would just go to a recycle yard and pick up a new valve cover. If it is running poorly, look for the simple stuff; in my experience these bikes are damn impossible to kill.
 
When I pulled the head on my 1100 last year I was surprised by how fagile the threading on these bolts were. As I recall I didn't have any break but did have them strip out before reaching torque specs. Believe me, this was not a brawny PO issue this was me having to pull the cams too many times because I had the timing 180 degrees off. I was nothing if not gentle.

I found replacing the bolts to help, and I think, I used some longer bolts to get additional clean thread length and I did not have to heli-coil any of them.

The one that broke off, I may have had one of those, this gasket replacement turned into all kinds of problems it shouldn't have, I think it came out with an easy out very easily, once I had the head on the garage floor.

I reccomended burning some incense and chanting. With mechanical skills like mine I need all the help I can get.
 
So here's a question ... if you take the cam caps off won't you have at least part of a "stud" to grab with a vise-grips and twist out (carefully, of course), or did they break down in the threading??

If that's the case you ought to be able to buy a new set of bolts and be good as new...
 
Redman said:
I am not asking how to extract the broken bolts. I realize that is take off head . . EZOut . . or take to shop . . maybe more expensive than its worth.

What I am asking is: Anybody know if this is not such a probelm, can run a long time like this? Or.. is the cam sure to flex and have catastophic failure at some point?

I have been ignoring this for a couple months, but what should I really think? And also concider that it still isnt running too well.
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Anyone that would tell you that it is OK to run like this is.....well...you have to fix this now or you are going to cause some major damage. You will probably lose the top end and maybe take some more stuff out with it. The bolts have all been over stressed and now the already over stressed bolts are taking more stress if you get what I'm saying (-:
 
It would make me nervous if only 3 of the 4 bolts were in place for a cam bearing. Seems to me it would lead to the other 3 loosening over time, the result being your camshaft starts to dance and loosens the other bolts even more.

Do what you need to do to fix it.
 
flyingace said:
It would make me nervous if only 3 of the 4 bolts were in place for a cam bearing. Seems to me it would lead to the other 3 loosening over time, the result being your camshaft starts to dance and loosens the other bolts even more.

Do what you need to do to fix it.
Click to expand...

I assume my bike is similar to yours, and the torque spec for my cam covers is like 7 ft. lbs. That's it. Only running three out of four won't cut it, you'll have some flex or at least vibration. No good. Your cams are also always pushing up on those covers due to valve spring tension, they don't just sit there and spin....its gotta be fixed.
 
If it were mine, I would take off one cam cap and see if the bolt is broke or missing. These bolts are in place where there is no corrosion. The bolts were either stretched to the point of breaking (where the remaining part is easily backed out of the hole) OR The threads in the head are stripped out. It is a fairly common mistake to install the cam cap bolts with oil down in the hole. Even with a proper inch lb. torque wrench, the bolt will "hydraulic" the threads before reaching the correct torque. Also, I am pretty sure the outer bolts are accessible, with a drill, in the event they need heli-coils.....If you pull and repair one cap at a time, you wont have to mess with the cam timing......BadBillyB
 
You need ALL the cam cap bolts in place and correctly torqued. Considering the number of broken ones, I would replace all the bolts. Whoever gorrilla'd the broken ones would have overstressed the ones they didnt break.

Earl
 
Pull off the caps and you should have the bolt stub sticking up. Before messing with these I'd give the bolts a good shot pf PB Blaster or similar and let them soak for a while. Some good vice grips on the bolts should wrench them loose. My guess is that water got into the bolt threads and caused corrosion. On the GS550 I just picked up the previous owner must have used a pressure washer on the bike because when I cracked the cam cap bolts loose a few of them squirted water out! Very strange. I figure water got in underneith them and was pushing up - loosening the bolt let the water out.

Good luck.
 
Redman

You've had some good advise on this post.
Don't run the engine with broken cam bearing bolts. They break through over torqueing.
Some owners are lucky that they strip out the thread before breaking the bolt, through the bolts being repeatly loosened and over tightened. This often happens when valve shims are replaced by lifting the cams instead of using the correct tool.
I say lucky because they can buy longer bolts and pick up a decent amount of new thread that will hold the 7ftlbs of torque. I have done this sucessfully on my 850.
As a previous member has said, hydraulicing can occur but you need plenty of oil because of the depth of the thread. It is always a good practice to blow out these bolt holes with compressed air before reassembly. Besides any oil, there will be parts of broken thread to be removed before screwing in the longer bolts.
Any of the suggestions for removal of the broken bolts should work. You can reach these bolts to drill them before using an easyout, without removing the head.
Cheers
Ian G
 
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