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Cam Lobe postions for shims?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mothra
  • Start date Start date
Ya know, a video would make this all very simple. If I had my head off, I would do one...

Sci85
 
Can't stand the zip tie method because it takes so damned long.
With the tool, quick, easy, done.
 
tkent02 said:
Can't stand the zip tie method because it takes so damned long.
With the tool, quick, easy, done.
Click to expand...
How long did it take you? I spent less than a minute per valve with the zip tie method.
**EDIT** I mean less than a minute per valve to insert the zip tie and turn the engine, not necessarily the whole process including the measurement and replacement etc.
 
Sci85 said:
Ya know, a video would make this all very simple. If I had my head off, I would do one...

Sci85
Click to expand...

yea your right... :D So next time a Video instead then? Well The mechanic actually did the timing and helped me along with some tips for the tool after I asked about a dozen questions about timing the shim tool and the shims. I thought that I would try to pass them along, of course his version was much better.

I just got it running properly after 2 months of working on it over the weekends myself and then another month at the shop finishing off my handy work and helping with a huge electrical cluster #($(E*#(. Now its working, the valve shims are adjusted, and the new gaskets are seated well. it idles smoothly, doesn't nom nom on Regulators/Rectifiers, dosn't pop fizzle stall or short out... so why mess with a good thing going? :p

Edit: and yes I took it in, I am always glad to work on it myself, and at least take a stab at it. Occasionally I lack the tools, know how or both to accomplish it all. I'd love to be to a point where I can dismantle top ends, replace cylinder heads, fix valves, and get timing down pat... but I can also do a lot more than I could this summer :D
 
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tkent02 said:
Can't stand the zip tie method because it takes so damned long.
With the tool, quick, easy, done.
Click to expand...
Just how quick do you want it, Tom? :-k

From the time I open the seat and remove the tank until I fire up the bike is usually less than 45 minutes.
shrug2.gif


.
 
mothra said:
Ah yea another noob questions, sorry....:-\\\

So you'll be happy to know (possibly...) that while working on the tensioner assembly getting that back in order (gaskets) I removed the head gasket, breather cover, and check the timing position (which actually I figured out pretty quickly), and check the shims! A major mile stone to my mechanical learning accomplishment. :clap:(I was excited) But I do have some basic basic questions.

Using the "official Suzuki Tappet Depressor Tool" (not my favorite at this point) LOL
images

I have a problem where it keeps slipping and the Tappets and shim slam right up against the cam lobe. :mad: Probably not the best thing... I also seem to have the shims utterly wedged in the Tappet tool? I understand that you are suppose to wedge this tool just so that the larger lip is pushing the edge of the tappet down, and the thinner lip is suppose to allow for enough clearance to get the shims out, which should be removable with some stronger tweezers. The tool should hold in place with the tension of the valve springs and not slip!?

So I put the tool in and it just slips right on off the tappet. I have tried with the flank of the lobe pointing straight up (lobe parallel to valve) and also where its perpendicular to the valve like the pictures in the manual here on adjusting valves. Wedging this tool in there. There has got to be some secret here that I am not doing quite correctly.

I understand where the shims are (the round silver dollar looking thing) And that you can compress the tappets to remove the shims with this tool which will in theory allow you to remove the shims and inspect/replace them, but the magic is just not happening on this one here. :o

So... What is the secret here with this mysterious "Tappet" tool? LOL:-\\\

My valves are to tight, (under .03mm Spec on B, C, and D, but A is right around .074mm) for the twin...

Plus every time your tool slips you get a nice splattering of oil on your face. I am about ready to throw in the towel. It seems so simple.. I hate to ask but I am about to give it up.
Click to expand...


This vid shows just how god the tool method can be,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2015554469142545363
 
JEEPRUSTY said:
This vid shows just how god the tool method can be,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2015554469142545363
Click to expand...
Oh, yeah? Watch it closely. When he goes to show how to push the bucket down, it snaps off the side of the bucket. :p

There is a break in the continuity of the film, meaning he must have tried another time or three, then it continues.
But he slips off the side THREE MORE TIMES before he very tentatively leaves it in place to pull the shim.

Even in an instructional video, there is proof that it does not always work.
nanana1.gif



So, ... how "good" is the tool? In my opinon, "not very". :D
 
Steve said:
Oh, yeah? Watch it closely. When he goes to show how to push the bucket down, it snaps off the side of the bucket. :p

There is a break in the continuity of the film, meaning he must have tried another time or three, then it continues.
But he slips off the side THREE MORE TIMES before he very tentatively leaves it in place to pull the shim.

Even in an instructional video, there is proof that it does not always work.
nanana1.gif



So, ... how "good" is the tool? In my opinon, "not very". :D
Click to expand...

Wow I just watched the brief bit of that where it keeps slipping off... I would've thrown that tool against the wall I think... makes me very happy to stick with the cable tie method :D
 
That video was very VERY painful to watch. Never had bucket-slap with cable-tie method, as learned thru Mr. Matchless tutorial.
 
A small screwdriver along side the shim tool keeps it from slipping off. No need to pull the spark plugs. No rotating the engine to remove shims. No foreign material getting shoved in the combustion chamber.
 
omg that video is bad medicine. I lost track of all the shim slaps that happened in the space of a couple minutes. "I hope that's not bad for it"... On top of it he whips out his trusty magnet to magnetize all the shims which the manuals expressly warn against. Wow, take it down!
 
Nessism said:
A small screwdriver along side the shim tool keeps it from slipping off.
Click to expand...
Haven't tried that, I will on the next adjustment.
Nessism said:
No need to pull the spark plugs.
Click to expand...
You have to rotate the engine somehow to move to the next shim, removing the plugs makes it easier.
I like to pull them to check wear and condition, anyhow.
Nessism said:
No rotating the engine to remove shims.
Click to expand...
As mentioned, you have to rotate the engine for other reasons, what's one more?
Nessism said:
No foreign material getting shoved in the combustion chamber.
Click to expand...
A quuick blast of air before removing the plugs takes care of that.

.
 
Nessism said:
A small screwdriver along side the shim tool keeps it from slipping off. No need to pull the spark plugs. No rotating the engine to remove shims. No foreign material getting shoved in the combustion chamber.
Click to expand...

Ed- Given I have aftermarket cams, is there any other way (or special tool) besides cable-tie method? Wonder how the hot-rodders check valves?
 
Frank..you dont need any stinking tool..do the zip tie just like we did when i showed you how to do valves. Save the 10 bucks for a burger and beer at bike night.
 
Frank Z. said:
Ed- Given I have aftermarket cams, is there any other way (or special tool) besides cable-tie method? Wonder how the hot-rodders check valves?
Click to expand...

Frank,

Those cams you have make it almost impossible to use the shim tool on the #2 & #3 buckets. I'd use the zip-tie method for your bike, or at least for those inner cylinders.
 
chuck hahn said:
Frank..you dont need any stinking tool..do the zip tie just like we did when i showed you how to do valves. Save the 10 bucks for a burger and beer at bike night.
Click to expand...

Honey badger CERTAINLY don't need not tool - he probably don't even need no shims, he just intimidates the valves into compliance.
 
Allie...i saw the earlier post..any loosened carbon wont hurt the engine any..just get ejected out the exhaust the first few rotations of the engine. It will crumble to dust and not be of any harm to anything in the cylinders.
 
Nessism said:
Frank,

Those cams you have make it almost impossible to use the shim tool on the #2 & #3 buckets. I'd use the zip-tie method for your bike, or at least for those inner cylinders.
Click to expand...

Really? :rolleyes:

I have a set of Andrews cams that I have had in 3 engines for over thirty years.
I have adjusted the valves on them more than once. :p :lol:


Daniel
 
7981GS said:
Really? :rolleyes:

I have a set of Andrews cams that I have had in 3 engines for over thirty years.
I have adjusted the valves on them more than once. :p :lol:


Daniel
Click to expand...

It's not good to assume.

Franks cams are not Andrews brand. I don't know what brand they are, but they are not Andrews because the markings don't match. My guess is they are RC, but I can't confirm that.

The cams are not ground in the area next to the inner lobes; they are rough cast with raised lettering and the shim tool will not slide around the cam. Using the wire-tie method is the easiest way (I think) on those particular cams.


IMG_1555.jpg
 
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Ed is right. When i went to Franks to show him the process, I took my tool and the Zip tie method is the only way to do it with the cams in his bike.
 
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