Can't separate secondary drive from shaft

[madwoodman58]

I am tracking down the source of a catastrophic loss of power between the motor and the shaft on my 82 GS1100GL. The bike was new to me so I started at the clutch, which checked out fine. The engine ran fine, so it had to be farther down the line. I took everything off the motor and tried to pull it out of the frame and the flange connecting the secondary drive to the u-joint on the shaft won't come loose. I took out the bolts, tried kerosene to loosen the goop apparently holding them together, heated the flange and hit it with a mallets, everything I can think of.

By the way, in moving the motor around to try to get it out of the frame, the shaft of the secondary bevel gear and the bearing around it came out of the motor casing by about 1 1/2 inches. I have a feeling my problem is in there.

Anyway, any ideas on how to break these things loose will be greatly appreciated. I found a few similar questions in the forums but nothing right on point.

Thanks

 

[matt1100]

Would have been better to leave the bolts for the gear assembley housing in until you had the motor out. If you could get that back tgether then pull the motor it would probably come apart. If all else fails you could remove the rear tire and swing arm

Good Luck

 

[tom203]

I am tracking down the source of a catastrophic loss of power between the motor and the shaft on my 82 GS1100GL. The bike was new to me so I started at the clutch.....

Thanks

I would have started at rear wheel if motor ran, but power disappeared- did you check out the rear wheel spline/drive?

 

[bwringer]

I would have started at rear wheel if motor ran, but power disappeared- did you check out the rear wheel spline/drive?

Dittos. Methinks the spline in the rear wheel has gone kablooey. This happens to EVERY 82-84 shaftie at some point, unless you replace the spline before it happens.

Take the rear wheel off and take a good hard look at the spline coupler in the rear wheel. Get in there with a flashlight and inspect the teeth.

Search the forum for "spline" for much, much more.

 

[madwoodman58]

Thanks, guys. I had read a couple of posts about the splines going bad in my research. The bike only has 12,500 miles on it, despite being 30 years old. The rear wheel spins fine and when I spin it, the ujoint turns nice and quietly.

After the loss of power, I pulled into a parking lot. I could start the engine and after pulling in the clutch, engage 1st gear. As soon as I would start letting out the clutch and the bike would nudge forward, it would slip out of gear and the "nuts and bolts in the washing machine" noise would start. That's what led me to the clutch first. The sound really seems to be coming from the engine enclosure.

I have attached a picture of the bevel gear shaft where it connects to the flange that connects to the U-joint and final drive shaft. The dark area about 1 inch wide on the shaft is the bearing it rotates inside of in the engine. It is now about two inches outside the engine. Since the shaft that is exposed is part of the bevel gear and the bevel gear isn't supposed to move rearward, I'm thinking it may be broken and is hanging out the back ot the engine. The secondary drive is the area that the sound seems to be coming from.

It looks like I'm going to have to take the rear wheel off and remove the swing arm to get this disconnected anyway, so I can check the splines before I open up the motor casing anyway.

Let me know if you have any other thoughts. ITs just about to be really good bike weather here in Dallas and I'm out ofg work and need some riding time to sooth my mind.

 

[bwringer]

I can't see a darn thing in that photo, but from your added description it does sound like the bevel gear is the problem. These are known to fail sometimes -- the output shaft breaks at the nut or the bearing fails.

 

[madwoodman58]

Thanks, bwringer. The picture looked better if you were there when I took it! Since I can't get the secondary gear separated from the shaft, I'll pull the rear wheel off and check everything anyway. As long as its this far apart, I might as well make sure I don't have to so it again any time soon.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

Pull the wheel/ swing arm/ differential. drive shaft will slide out of the differential. . Then you can pull the drive shaft and secondary gear out together. You may need to heat the bolts to break the thread locker loose.
OR put a pry bar through the U joint & use a breaker bar on the bolts then remove everything.. Look on BaseCliff's site for the procedure to repair the broken retainer nut...
It looks like the bearing is bad from the picture?? IT IS OEM ?? and expensive brg size 32X58X17 $50 at partshack+ another $15-20 for the seal and O ring

 

[madwoodman58]

The whole thing is apart now - Update

The whole thing is apart now - Update

Well, I took everything apart, removed the rear wheel, took out the final drive and removed the swing arm and here's what I found:

I still can't get this flange loose from the drive shaft in the final drive. However, I found out why there was no power getting to the rear wheel.

There are no teeth in the flange at all and the teeth on the secondary drive bevel gear drive shaft are worn almost completely. I'm not sure what would have caused this, and I guess I have to check and see if the secondary drive gear is spinning correctly or if it locked up and stripped the flange as the bike continued to roll. I don't know if the secondary gear seized or not. I will take the engine out tomorrow and pop it open and see.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

You probably have had this problem ever since you have had the bike.. Most
of the time this happens on the 1100's Nut breaks off
You don't need to remove the engine !

 

[ged]

Same thing happened to me but on the other end.

Didnt try and fix the problem just bought another pumkin.

See pdf file below from BikeCliffs Website that has the exact fix for your problem.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/bevel_gear_shaft_repair_zooks.pdf


Hope this helps.

 

[matt1100]

Sorry about your loss. Thanks for the detailed pictures though. Cant believe that shaft coupling has welded itself together like that

 

[madwoodman58]

OK, so I finally got the flange loose and took the #%$@ broken shaft and nut out. My question to the learned hands out there is whether the teeth on the secondary bevel gear drive are too worn to continue to use. My guess is yes, but I haven't seen a picture of a new one.

If the bevel gear drive has to be replaced, what is the best way to do it? Do I buy the new drive gears (both bevel gears in the secondary drive) and pul out he guts and replace them or is there another alternative?

Also, in taking all this stuff apart, it is obvious (as it was when it left the factory, I guess) that I need to replace the rear wheel spline. I have read the information all over the forums about this but want to be clear what I need.

The 850, 1000 and 1100 all use the same spline, I believe. I need to find either a spline from 79 - 81 or after when? We have the black, gold and silver version. Black is best, silver is OK and the gold is bad? Do I keep an eye on eBay for a lightly used version? What are the other options?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

I'm taking the opportunity of having the whole thing apart to replaced the cables and brake lines, too and touch up some rust spots on the frame. Any pointers there are welcome, also.

Sorry to be such a pest, but this has turned into a big undertaking for a noobie and I'm trying to do it the right way. The GS way!

 

[matt1100]

After mine shredded itself I did a bike salvage search online. Had a yard in new england call me back. They insisted on selling me transmission too, but I got a trans, both drive and driven gears in housings, and shift forks and cam for $150.

You didn't put a picture of the "worn" one up. I know they are supposedly a matched set so it is suggested that both be changed together.

 

[Nessism]

Will this help?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-SUZUKI...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a7576ec32&vxp=mtr

 

[1948man]

For the rear wheel splines, you can often get them cheaper if you buy a whole wheel from an appropriate year off Ebay. If you just search for spines, the seller usually knows the value of what he is selling and jacks up the price. I believe the new Boulevards use the same spline and you can get a new silver one for about $100 from an online vendor.

 

[madwoodman58]

Wow. Y'all area a godsend. My problem is I don't know what parts are interchangeable between years/models.

If the 80 1000GT secondary drive is the same as my 82 1100GL, I'll snap that right up.

I've been looking for splines as part of a wheel, but I'm not sure what the "good" years are after 1982.

Thanks, guys. You're saving my a$$.

 

[madwoodman58]

Will this spline work on my 82 GS1100GL? I think so!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290774179679?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

[Nessism]

I'm pretty sure the 1000 and 1100 secondary drives are the same. I sold one from a 1000 to a member here and he installed into a 1100. You might want to check part numbers using one of the various on-line parts fishe. http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.htm