carb rebuild problems

[kennethleemiller]

avoid the one on lower right , cuz it's too small.

That may be just what my problem is... The r/r on the bike currently is the same size as that one on the right.. I'll look into getting the right size, then...

Also, about avoiding the H/L switch loop, I've read that here before, but I don't know what the purpose in doing that is.. I had always thought that that loop was fed by combination of the battery, r/r, and stator so that the light wouldn't dim and brighten as the revs go up and down?? Don't chide me for that, I realize this is just a blind theory of mine..

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Your bike has low miles. I would suggest first performing a valve adjustment rather than a "valve job". You'll find the procedure on my website. You'll also find guides for stator replacement, r/r replacement, and lots of other goodies.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[tom203]

" I realize this is just a blind theory of mine.. "

Visit Basscliff's to dispel blind theories! Anyway,you must test to determine which parts might be bad- unless you feel lucky. I got two 650 part lots that contained those mini R/R's, so they must have been popular as replacements. The Shindengen units are very durable , all over ebay for cheap money- I use a 30 year old unit off a cx-500 honda. But checking and securing connections is a must for happy motoring.

 

[kennethleemiller]

Think I may have made a breakthrough this evening.. Tried with the tank on and everything hooked up as normal.. Had pretty much the same results.. So I decided to rig up the ingenious contraption pictured below out of parts from my son's dirt bike, haha.. The whole idea was to get as free of a flow of fuel possible, and.. it worked!! Fired right up with the choke, and with some feathering I got a nice stable idle, albeit high, at around 2k, but still, a much better response than with the tank on... SO I think I need a new petcock.. I've also cracked into the stator housing, and while I was down there I went ahead and pulled off the rear engine cover, and good Lord was it nasty under there... a couple of questions attached ahead of the two photos following my gas tank set up..

This is what I found when I removed the stator housing.. The stator isn't actually supposed to be encased in oil is it?? Seems like that would detrimentally effect the electromagnetic field..

This rear cover is disgusting... Is the foam really necessary?? Can I just tear all that gunk out of there??

 

[koolaid_kid]

That stator is toast. Replace the R/R when you replace the stator. A Shindengen is the usual replacement part; a list of good replacements are here in this forum and on BassCliff's website.

The foam is not required; it was probably put there for sound deadening (just a guess). The goop is just chain lube. After you clean it up start using chain wax and the buildup will be much much less.

When you go to replace the items wire the 3 wires from the stator straight to the R/R. The run the output of the R/R straight to the battery with a 15-20A fuse inline.
The headlight loop was there as a legacy item and is not required at all since our headlights are on all the time.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Yes, the oil helps keep the stator cool, relatively.

Don't remove the stator cover if your bike is on the side stand. It will make a big mess.

Is that the front sprocket cover? I don't know why there would be insulation there. But then, I'm not that familiar with all of the larger GS chain bikes.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[850 Combat]

I would not assume that it needs a valve job. It is highly likely that it can use a valve adjustment though, and tight valves cause hard starting. Cliff is definitely right there,with his opinion I think. The boots between the head and the carbs look none too good in the photo, and air leaks there cause unstable idle and hanging RPM's, which it sounds like you may be experiencing.

As a minimum, the boots need new O Rings, but when you see metal showing on them, its pretty much toast. cycleorings.com sells the O Rings at a good price with cheap quick shipping.

 

[kennethleemiller]

Yes, the oil helps keep the stator cool, relatively.

Is that the front sprocket cover? I don't know why there would be insulation there. But then, I'm not that familiar with all of the larger GS chain bikes.

First off, yes front sprocket cover, I had assumed the foam was there for some minor reason and really not required.. just wanted to run it by some guys here before removing it..

But back to the oil in stator housing.. I understand the desire to keep the thing cool.. what I don't understand is the fundamental electrical characteristics.. I mean when it's broken down to it's simplest form, you're creating electrical current by rotating a magnet around a copper coil..

Correct me if I'm wrong but I could have sworn that part of that "square one" formula for creating electricity was air.. that the environment you're creating an electromagnetic field in is ambient air..

 

[tom203]

.........." I could have sworn that part of that "square one" formula for creating electricity was air.. that the environment you're creating an electromagnetic field in is ambient air.. "

If you google "electricity and magnetism", your head will spin in no time and you'll lose sight of all that good info at Basscliff's.
Any kind of relative motion between a magnet and a conductor produces electricity- magnetism can pass thru lots of "environments". Your stator failed and overheated and then some oil splashed over it to give it that Cajun look.
The rotor has magnets in it; when it spins around the stator windings, voltage is induced in those windings. If you give the voltage someplace to go ( R/R in our case), a current will flow, i.e., power is generated. Alternatively, if stator windings ground out on themselves or the cover, excessive current can flow ,leading to a barbeque.

 

[Guest]

.. what I don't understand is the fundamental electrical characteristics.. I mean when it's broken down to it's simplest form, you're creating electrical current by rotating a magnet around a copper coil..

For the geek in you...

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html

 

[DanTheMan]

This may be a stupid question, but, here goes. Why are you thinking "valve job" at 26,xxx miles? My 96,xxx mile 850 hasn't had a valve job yet, runs fine but burns oil through hardened valve seals. Don't do more work than you have to.
Next question, have you checked your valve shim clearances yet? If you've got a few that are on the tight side, a lot of those symptoms I've been reading in your thread are coming from them, due to leakage (valves being held open by too tight of clearances).
Over my many years of playing with engines, trannies and other mechanical stuff, I've finally learned to NOT tear something down to parade rest if it doesn't really warrant that extra time and work. If you have to do it to check things out because you've got a major iron butt trip coming up, more power to you, but it sounds to me like you're giving yourself more work to do when you should be riding it.
OK, diatribe over, carry on smartly!

 

[kennethleemiller]

This may be a stupid question, but, here goes. Why are you thinking "valve job" at 26,xxx miles?

The reason I was thinking it needed a valve job was because the times I have had it running, it's smoked pretty bad out of the exhaust... Led me to believe it needed a valve job or new rings..

 

[Guest]

The reason I was thinking it needed a valve job was because the times I have had it running, it's smoked pretty bad out of the exhaust... Led me to believe it needed a valve job or new rings..

might do a compression check first before tearing the head apart...

definitely check the valve clearances... Cliff's site has all the info you need for that.


It's tough to isolate individual problems when so many "other projects" are in-play. Often times they are all inter-related, but not necessarily the primary culprits by themselves:

Does the bike not start/run because of carb issues?
Does the bike not start/run because of electrical issues?
Does the bike not start/run because of valve issues?
Does the bike not start/run because of a combination of all issues?

​

Shore up each of the above by performing the maintainence on each item that has most likely been neglected for lots of years.

1. You have already cleaned your carbs & checked for vaccum leaks.
2. You are working on getting the electrical system up to par (this is usually a big hitter), make sure you also check the voltage at the coils & verify you actually have good spark through each plug wire. Assuming stock coils & wires, unscrew each of the plug caps & snip about 1/4" of wire off to expose new, clean wire. Put the OEM caps back on, or replace with better NGK caps. Also clean & inspect every single, stinkin' electrical connection on the bike (including inside the headlight bucket).
3. Absolutely check your valve clearances - they get tighter as the valves wear & you risk burning valves if left un-checked. As Dan has stated, many of your symptoms could be related to this issue.

Once ALL the basics have been covered, it becomes easier to troubleshoot individual problems, simply because you have already "fixed" many of the possible causes. This is a much easier path to follow, instead of the shotgun approach.

Good luck, we have all been in your shoes at one time or another!

Mike

 

[kennethleemiller]

Stator installed, adding new oil tomorrow and cranking her up... did a LOT of very much needed cleaning underneath that front sprocket cover today... looks like a brand new bike under there.. too bad no one will get to see it..

Will start looking for a stock size r/r next week.. but it shouldn't hurt the new stator to do some trial and error with the small r/r, right??? I mean really all the stator does is output a/c power..

I'll be heading to the head for the next part of this project and checking valve clearances is at the top of my list..

You've all been extremely helpful and a continued source of expertise.. Expect to see more post, updates, and questions...

 

[tom203]

Hmm.... your old stator was toasted, and you want to try your new stator with the old mini R/R that might have catered the barbeque? Sure, do some tests, but they remember that they aren't as conclusive as actual running. Get a better R/R and while you're waiting, get the cam cover off and explore the valve clearances- PO's have been known to make mistakes.

P.S. excellent cleaning

 

[850 Combat]

The stator won't make it run any better though.

 

[tom203]

I'll make it easy! ebay item #200701746708
Oregon $15 with free shipping! clean Shindengen ; seller readily admits that he doesn't test them, but offers 30 day warranty. I bought an alternator off him a few weeks back.