Cartridge emulators, RaceTech springs, anti-dive Q's

[QuaiChangKane]

I think I've asked this before, but here goes....


Racetech lists springs and cartridge emulators for the 1100ED, but not the 750ED/ESD. The forks for both bikes are essentially the same - has anyone tried using the emulators and springs for the 1100 in the 750 forks?

Next question - now that I'm financially solvent again (\\/) and I can (must?) focus on getting the GS back on the road, I want to upgrade to SS lines. Every mod I'm doing is geared towards keeping a period-correct look. I want to keep the A/D actuators on the forks, but disable them. I'm going to install a 4-unit SS brake line setup, and want to know if it's possible to disable the anti-dive by just fabricating a block-off plate to mount between the A/D actuator and the fork leg (as opposed to "in place of" the actuator) - leaving the actuator in place for aesthetics, even leaving the line connected.

I figure that disabling the actuator - even with the two extra brake lines - will still give an incredible increase in brake firmness while retaining the stock look.

I'm just thinking of cutting a sheetmetal plate to fit between the actuator and the fork leg with a gasket on each side - maybe even welded into place to eliminate any chance of leakage...

Sound totally nuts?



Thanks!


-Q!

 

[p_s]

I've read that they don't always get the sizes right for the cartridge emulators when you search by model--better measure everything to be certain. If I didn't owe taxes I'd put some in my forks.

 

[posplayr]

1989 Cycle Mod in "Revival - Project"

1989 Cycle Mod in "Revival - Project"

I can check again, but I think the spring kit I got for my 83 GS1100ED and the one for the 1981 GS750EX are different. The OEM springs are different for sure. Also the OD is different; GS1100ED is larger by a couple of mm. (maybe 38 vs. 36??)

On the Anti-dive, I just found this yesterday. It is an article from 1989 Cycle talking about the exact same type of anti dive disconnect mod. Sound like there are plenty of ways to do this. I think I would figure out a way to plug the AD banjo bolt (solder, weld or JB weld, epoxy) and just re install with the SS lines. Paragon makes sets which as probably pretty good(although I never saw one). I bought lines to update my GS1150 oil cooler.

I have been avoiding my brakes as I'm neck deep into cams and such but will look into this mod when I get around to it.

Keep us updated on this mod. I bought the Progressive springs for my GS1100E and now I'm wondering if that was the right thing or if they will work with the racetech emulators


[Edited: 3/12/08] Wow check out thsi link. i wonder if this was ever resolved??

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=79377&highlight=emulator

Posplayr

 

[QuaiChangKane]

I can check again, but I think the spring kit I got for my 83 GS1100ED and the one for the 1981 GS750EX are different. The OEM springs are different for sure. Also the OD is different; GS1100ED is larger by a couple of mm. (maybe 38 vs. 36??)

On the Anti-dive, I just found this yesterday. It is an article from 1989 Cycle talking about the exact same type of anti dive disconnect mod. Sound like there are plenty of ways to do this. I think I would figure out a way to plug the AD banjo bolt (solder, weld or JB weld, epoxy) and just re install with the SS lines. Paragon makes sets which as probably pretty good(although I never saw one). I bought lines to update my GS1150 oil cooler.

I have been avoiding my brakes as I'm neck deep into cams and such but will look into this mod when I get around to it.

Keep us updated on this mod. I bought the Progressive springs for my GS1100E and now I'm wondering if that was the right thing or if they will work with the racetech emulators


[Edited: 3/12/08] Wow check out thsi link. i wonder if this was ever resolved??

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=79377&highlight=emulator

Posplayr

Thanks for the info! If I do go with the RT parts, I'd do it through a suspension shop - either Lindemann in the Bay or Boyken locally (Boyken's hooked up a couple of my brothers - he's a good guy when he's not out at the dunes )


IIRC, the EX forks are different from the ES(D) forks - the 1100ED and 750ED forks should be nearly identical 37mm units, same A/D setup, etc...


And If I get a good solution for A/D block-off plates, I'll make sure to have extras cut for fellow GS'ers.

-Q!

 

[Pete Logan]

On the anti-dive, the standard method is to remove the pipes and make covers for the resulting holes.

Logic would suggest that any method that stops the flow of fluid through this part of the system will have the same effect.

So unless anyone knows better, I would guess that you could keep the period look by blocking the pipe hole at either end with a small copper (or similar) shim.

 

[Guest]

The damping rods require drilling more compression holes around the stock hole that already exists in the damping rod. DRILLING THE EXTRA HOLES BYPASSES THE ANTI DIVE...no further mods/removal of the exterior mods required. Just leave them be where they are. Lets thing remain stock looking. Directions are very explicit, and easy. Get a machine shop to drill out the damping rods, and then install the emulators, springs and pre load spacres yourself. Buy a small pipe cutter to cut the provided preload spacer material.

Good luck!!! I have RT springs and emulators in the gsxr front I have on my 1100EZ, and love 'em!

 

[Pete Logan]

See - I knew if I said something stupid enough someone who actually knows what they are talking about would chip in :-D

 

[Mark M]

I've read that they don't always get the sizes right for the cartridge emulators when you search by model--better measure everything to be certain. If I didn't owe taxes I'd put some in my forks.

That is correct. Unless they have updated their site, the springs and emulators spec'd are WAY too big to fit into the GS forks. I found this out the hard way and RT was no help at all in sorting the mess out. I do have the correct sizes for the 1100 forks in my notes if you want them. Just be aware that RT has incorrect info on their site.

Mark

 

[posplayr]

RT Parts #

RT Parts #

Please provide.
I have the 83 GS1100ED.
Springs and cartridges what ever else you think
Posplayr

 

[QuaiChangKane]

Please provide.
I have the 83 GS1100ED.
Springs and cartridges what ever else you think
Posplayr

Yes! +1 on needing the proper sizes if you don't mind digging through your notes.

I'll likely just have the local suspension shock do the whole rebuild once I can get the correct part numbers.

Thanks again for all of the advice!


-Q!

 

[Mark M]

Yes! +1 on needing the proper sizes if you don't mind digging through your notes.
-Q!

Well, here it is. BTW, hell froze over and Race Tech updated their site... They now list the correct emulator number, but the springs are still wrong.

Emulators should be #FEGV-S3301
Springs should be #S2643 series (I would also say that you want the highest rate of 0.90kg/mm unless you weigh 100lbs.)

I couldn't get the springs here (Canada), so I bought a set of Progressive Suspension springs and shortened them to get a 0.92kg/mm rate. I would actually prefer around 0.95-1.0kg/mm but it simply wasn't possible with the envelope dimensions of the GS fork.

Mark

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Mark

Thanks Mark

I'm vacilating between doing the cartrige and jumping in head first to do the GSRX conversions.

I need to get it back together first "stock" then contemplate the GSRX (maybe).

Thanks for the info. I know where to find it.

I also already bought progressives for my GS1100ED (83) so I'm guessing with the cartridge kit I would need to shave down mine also to reduce length??

Posplayr

 

[Mark M]

I'm vacilating between doing the cartrige and jumping in head first to do the GSRX conversions.

I need to get it back together first "stock" then contemplate the GSRX (maybe).

Thanks for the info. I know where to find it.

I also already bought progressives for my GS1100ED (83) so I'm guessing with the cartridge kit I would need to shave down mine also to reduce length??

Posplayr

Well, it depends on if you want a stock look or performance. Proper springs and emulators will make your stock fork work as well as it can, which is pretty good. GSXR suspension and 17" wheels/tires are a quantum leap ahead of the stock stuff. If you do springs and valving on the GSXR forks it would be superb.

I don't know if you will need to cut the PS springs down, some guys add preload to them, so the emulator will just do the same thing from the bottom instead of at the top. I cut mine down to increase the rate and get rid of most of the progressive portion of the spring. Then I added a preload spacer to take up the length I cut off.

Mark

 

[Joe Nardy]

I have the Race Tech cartridge emulators in my '83 1100E with Progressive springs (thanks to Mark M. for all his help). It makes a huge difference. One thing to keep in mind is that the Race Tech website recommends (or at least did a couple years ago when I bought the emulators) 20 weight fork oil. This is way too heavy. I weigh 225 pounds and do a lot of two-up riding and with 20 weight oil the suspension is too harsh. I just removed the forks last night and am going to try Motorex 10 weight oil. It will be a while before I get a chance to ride but I'll post my results.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[mac1170]

gday guys, i run the gold valves emulators in my 1100et, im 80kg, i found 5weight oil, is good just wound down the adjuster an extra 2 turns,to put more preload on the spring on the shim stack, the oil weight is about adjusting rebound damping, i also use progressive springs, with a 2inch spacer and the lowest spring preload, on the forks, regards.

 

[justin caise]

I'm vascilating between congegating and regurgitating...
can't figure whether it is better to vibrate or oscilate.
But I iterate...

http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/emulators.htm

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9502_tech/index.html

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/race_tech_cartridge_emulator/index.html

Desicions, decisions,

[Television and internet - providing daily radiation treatments worldwide.]

 

[posplayr]

Thanks those are excellent links

Thanks those are excellent links

:-D I found the last one with Google but the first and second look excellent and also deserve quite study.
Posplayr

 

[posplayr]

Racetech emulators GS1100ED

Racetech emulators GS1100ED

OK I got my emulators to install on my 83 GS1100ED with anti dive.

The directions say to drill two additional holes for a total of 4 at 10 mm alternating 90 degree angles. However there is an additional note:

"if the bike is equipped with Anti-Dive Mechanism........ The new holes should be drilled starting just above the Bottom-out cones (or washers on models with washers).

OK so in the pic you can see where I located pencil marks for the two opposing holes above where the washers go.

* The OEM holes are at 12 mm so I spaced these upper two the same amount. Is this right?

Also any recommendations on setting the Emulator Valving. It says two turns for street and 4 for racing. I weight 200 lbs and set them up with Progressive springs in front and Ohlins in the rear.

* Mac I see you went to the full race setting on the adjusted by adding the two turns.
I could go for 3 turns and back off as required from there.

Mac on the GS1100ET progressive (Fork Spring 11-1107) says to add a 3" spacer so going with only 2" is probably to adjust for your lower weight. EZ/ED (82-83) goes with no spacer. Also I measured the preload adjuster it provides 13 mm of adjustment and the emulator seems to add 14 mm of stack height. So I might just see if I can stuff the progressives in and leave the preload at minimum and see how that rides. I'd rather not cut the spring right now if I dont have to. There will be plenty of time for fine tuning later.

* Should I simply cut the spring to make up for the stack height increase of the emulator or as suggested above just see if I can stuff them in?


Joe, any updates on your ride???

I will probably have to make some final installed suspension height and ride stiffness measurements but just looking for some other peoples experiences to reduce my trial and error.

TIA


Posplayr

 

[Mark M]

Posplayer,

The best thing to do with the anti-dive is block it off and ignore it. The goal with the additional holes is to eliminate any compression damping effect in the damper rod and move it all to the emulator. I would think what you have marked will be fine. If in doubt, call Race Tech support and ask them.

I would also try 2 turns first, the emulators transform how well a damper rod fork works and you will be astonished at the improvement. Start at the plush end and work stiffer if you feel the need, but I bet you leave them at 2 turns and marvel at the improvement.

As for a preload spacer, I can't say. I cut nearly 4" off my PS springs, so I needed spacers anyway. The only way to know is to cut just the emulator amount off and work from there, based on sag numbers. Given your weight, I think you will need some spacers, though. You know to cut the end with the closer coil spacing, right?:-D Also, make sure you close and grind the end flat after cutting it.


Mark

 

[Joe Nardy]

Just from memory, your additional hole placement looks like what I did. I am still playing around with settings and oil weight to get the ride I want. I started out with a stiffer emulator setting, around 3 turns and 20 weight oil. I have Progressive springs and do not use spacers. I run the preload at the lightest setting. With that setup it was too stiff and harsh for my liking. The handling was very nice when pushed hard but the overall ride quality was too stiff. I have changed to 10 weight oil and backed the emulator setting to the recommended setting (2 3/4 turns?) but haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Just bouncing the front end feels considerably softer than what I had before. Hopefully I'll get it on the road by this weekend and can give you a report. For reference, I weigh 225 lbs. and run Ikon shocks with pretty heavy springs. For one-up riding I use damping setting two or three out of four on the shocks. As currently set up the rear is noticeably more compliant than the front end.

Thanks,
Joe