Checking Valve Clearance

[apopleptic]

Ok, I have never checked valve clearance before, I have the feeler guages on order and they should be in on Tuesday. Cheaper for those locally than online.
When I am doing this will I need to replace any gaskets?
I see there is a breather cover gasket as well as the cylinder head gasket, are these usually salvageable like the gasket in the carb? or should I order these parts now? I know I will probably need to order shims, can I order a starter set of shims to minimize down time? or are those something that I should just order the ones I need?

I was planning on replacing my cam chain tensioner gasket and orings while I have this apart since it looked like it may have been leaking (was covered in grease). Is there any other manitenence or check I should perform whle I have the cover off?

Thanks!

 

[cowboyup3371]

Yuu might get lucky and not need to replace those gaskets but I'd get them anyway just in case. As far as the shims, you need to know what you have in there first before you know what you will have to change. Basscliff's page has a valve adjustment tutorial which is pretty good to review.

Also, send an email to Steve (his username and real name) for his spreadsheet. You'll love it in the end.

 

[Steve]

I know I will probably need to order shims, can I order a starter set of shims to minimize down time? or are those something that I should just order the ones I need?

If you have a LOT of money to buy a bunch of shims to cover EVERY possible shim size (and multiples of them, too), go ahead and spend it. Since most of us don't have that much money to throw around, we just measure the clearances, find out what's in there, and order what we need. If you are feeling a bit extravagant at that time, go ahead and order the next size smaller shim for next time.

Also, send an email to Steve (his username and real name) for his spreadsheet.

He already did that about a week ago.

You'll love it in the end.

Which end did you stick yours in?

.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Now Steve, I never kiss and tell

 

[apopleptic]

Haha, thanks. I asked about ordering the shims because I saw 'starter packs' that looked cheap.

Howabout other maintenance while I have it apart?

 

[Guest]

+1 on the gaskets, may not need it but good to have a spare. I know your situation in regards to $$$ is not flash right now, but the question is if the gasket doesn't come out nice and you don't have a spare, what sort of bind does that leave you in if the bike is out of action? At one point I had to urgently put gasket goo on mine when it split in the middle of a ride, but I'd try to avoid that where possible as getting it off again to put a proper gasket in is a PITA.

One suggestion Steve normally gives that he didn't this time (gettin' slack Steve! ) is to pick up a 2.15 shim or something really small like that so that if you find you can't measure the clearance, you'll have a tiny shim to put in there and get a good idea of what size shim you will need. Steve explains that so much better than me too

Whatever you do, *don't* rotate the engine with no shim in a shim bucket.

The other thing is if you're seeing oil around the cam chain tensioner, probably best to do the right thing and rebuild it while you're there, shouldn't be too hard or expensive on parts, but if it fails it will be an expensive fix. If you do it, absolutely 100% definitely put loctite on the locknut as indicated as if that flies off mid-ride, it could be an expensive issue if that cam chain is allowed to flop around in there. There's a good rebuild guide on BassCliff's site that shows you what seals to buy etc.

Can't think of anything else right now off the top of my head...

Oh, except to mention that I found the cable/zip tie method to be so easy it's not funny...

I hope I got all that right...

 

[apopleptic]

So my feeler gauges came in and I went and picked them up.
I came home and looked more closely at them and they gave me the wrong gauges. instead of .03mm and .08mm like I asked them to order they got me .08mm and .20mm. I called them back up to check if they just gave me the wrong one and they were snotty and said they ordered them just for me.
I actually remember the guy saying the reason it was so expensive ($5.50 each) was because they had two gauges on each, the .03mm also had the .02mm.
Now they say they'll get the right one in for me, but he didn't say he would exchange the wrong one for me. Is it wrong to be kind of upset with these guys? am I being unreasonable? Last time I ordered parts, these guys didn't even call me when they came in and I ended up calling them to check on them like 3 times before the guy told me the parts were there.

 

[Guest]

So my feeler gauges came in and I went and picked them up.
I came home and looked more closely at them and they gave me the wrong gauges. instead of .03mm and .08mm like I asked them to order they got me .08mm and .20mm. I called them back up to check if they just gave me the wrong one and they were snotty and said they ordered them just for me.
I actually remember the guy saying the reason it was so expensive ($5.50 each) was because they had two gauges on each, the .03mm also had the .02mm.
Now they say they'll get the right one in for me, but he didn't say he would exchange the wrong one for me. Is it wrong to be kind of upset with these guys? am I being unreasonable? Last time I ordered parts, these guys didn't even call me when they came in and I ended up calling them to check on them like 3 times before the guy told me the parts were there.

If you ordered something specific and they didn't provide you with what they said they would, too right I'd be upset!

I see this sort of thing too often these days and customer service seems to be a lost art in a lot of shops now.

Not everyone is like that though and I have recently had some superb experiences which has somewhat restored my faith...

Sounds to me like they have a habit of poor or lack lustre service, but is this the only place you can get things from? Might be time for a change if not...

 

[apopleptic]

There used to be two shops in my area that I could go to. the one was hard to get anyone at, but then they would be helpful. the other was a bunch of 'idiots'. The problem is that about 2 weeks ago when I went to order some parts I found out the 'idiots' store had bought out the other store and they were going to merge into one store.
Turns out they kept all the employees from both stores and the ones that used to be pretty good seem to be taking a lesson from the others...
Looks like from now on I'll be looking for a new shop, or ordering online.

 

[Guest]

Bugger! Idiots with money are the worst...

Online or elsewhere sounds good to me

 

[apopleptic]

OK, so I asked them to get me the right one (.03mm) 2 days ago and I know better than to wait for them to call me.
So I called them and couldn't reach anyone in parts so I drove down there and they went to give me another of the wrong size.
So the guy spends like 10 minutes looking through catalogs and then says that he can't find one that small. Nowhere in there do they go to accept the return with receipt of the unopened wrong size they had sold me.
Looks like I have to order online and that bums me out cause my top is off now.

I've never done any checks like this before so I've read the tutorial by Mr. Matchless about 8 times now and it seems basic. What I'm looking for are basics, so please answer me these questions three.

1. The measurement is taken by inserting the feeler gently right? shouldn't be much of any force to insert in the gap?
2. if the .08mm fits that means new shim on that valve? Generally up one size? or do I need more feeler guage sizes to measure in order to tell?
3. if the .08mm doesn't fit and the .05mm does that valve is within spec, no shim needs to be replaced?

Thanks!

 

[Guest]

Hi, The valves tend to get tighter as the miles pile up. So, if you are able to get the .08mm feeler in, you are in great shape. This is the max according to Suzuki's spec. Anything tighter as long as it is not less than .03mm, would still be acceptable. If less than .03mm you will want to change to a thinner shim to get back into the .03 to .08mm range. It is ok to run a little looser than the .08mm as all it will cause is a bit more noise, as long as the clearance isn't too large. Ray

 

[Guest]

1. Feeler gauge should be a snug fit. Don't force it. Try the next size up to make sure.
2. 0.08mm means it will be fine (upper limit) but definitely need one feeler size up to be sure it's not 0.09mm.
3. The correct range is 0.03mm to 0.08mm, anything in that range is good.

One thing to note though is that valve seat wear in the head means that clearances tend to decrease, not increase, so if you find incorrect clearances, they will most likely be *smaller* than 0.03mm, not larger than 0.08mm.

A very good tip I got on determining what shim sizes you'll need if there is no measurable clearance is to rotate the shim bucket.

If it rotates easily,then there is some clearance and 1 shim size down should be good.

If it doesn't rotate, there is no clearance and you will most likely need to go 2 shim sizes down, maybe more.

 

[apopleptic]

So I received my feeler gages today and was working on completing my check. Had some issues initially as the .04 and .05 were stuck together and I didn't realize.
So to confirm, if the .09mm doesn't fit and the .04 does fit then I'm good? Cyl1 I cannot fit the .04 under either valve, on cyl2 I can fit the .04 but not the .09. Too bad I have no zip ties or I'd inventory the shims I have now. oh well, something for tomorrow.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Yes, if the .04mm fits than you are on the low end of clearance. You'll be fine for awhile but still need to check it occasionally (about every 4000 miles).

 

[Steve]

So to confirm, if the .09mm doesn't fit and the .04 does fit then I'm good?

As long as those are metric feelers, not INCH feelers, that will work.

Keep in mind, though, that when you enter your clearances into the spreadsheet, you will want to enter actual measurements, so make sure you use the feelers between those two, also.

Be sure to also enter your measurements in the correct row.

.

 

[apopleptic]

As long as those are metric feelers, not INCH feelers, that will work.

Keep in mind, though, that when you enter your clearances into the spreadsheet, you will want to enter actual measurements, so make sure you use the feelers between those two, also.

Be sure to also enter your measurements in the correct row.

.

Yeah, these are metric feelers. What do I enter for the clearences that are smaller than I can measure?

 

[Guest]

Yeah, these are metric feelers. What do I enter for the clearences that are smaller than I can measure?

With Steve's spreadsheet, just enter something between 0 and the smallest you can measure, and it will tell you what shim you need. If it's smaller than 0.03mm it's out of spec and needs a smaller shim anyway.

 

[Steve]

Yeah, these are metric feelers. What do I enter for the clearences that are smaller than I can measure?

Since you are using metric, enter .02. If you were using inches, enter 1.

Both of those are smaller than the recommended clearance (and smaller than your thinnest feeler) and will trigger the CHANGE mechanism.

For some reason, entering a zero throws everything off.

.