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Checking Valve Clearances: Near Disaster?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ekabil
  • Start date Start date
old_skool said:
Since we're having fun on the subject;)

1) Clymer is no authority on Suzuki or any other bike

2) Never heard of anyone in my lifetime ruining their engine or causing
premature wear because they used a magnet

3) here is an excerpt from a Yamaha manual, they weren't afraid of the Boogeyman

yamshim.jpg


4) Suzuki doesn't say not to use a magnet, just their aerospace engineered
tool....tweezers:rolleyes:
suzshim.jpg


Remember, I'm posting this in the spirit of the topic, not trying to stir the pot....jeez, hate having to add a disclaimer as of late.
Click to expand...

Sorry you feel the need for a disclaimer, but you still seem to not understand what I'm saying.

1) Actually Clymer is an authority on Suzuki bikes, and many many other machines. By their generalized domain they are necessarily less expert than Suzuki, who is a 'higher' authority in my opinion. In either case if it is in 'the manual' there is a reasonable expectation of accuracy, more so in the factory manual. Nonetheless even Suzuki is not immune to error in their manuals. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's true.

2) Neither have I. I'm not arguing that the warning against magnetism has any basis in fact. My only point is that I didn't bring it up because 'someone told me so'. I really don't know how to say it any more clearly than that.

3) I believed you the first time, but thanks for the reference anyway.

4) I didn't think the factory manual mentioned magnetism, but again... thanks for the reference...
 
Well i doubt the telescopic pen magnets I have would be powerful enough to magnetize the cam enough to pick up a shim, if you are using a strong electromagnet for some reason it might. but by the time you got up to those high rpms the cam would be demagnetized. Think about it: when something is magnetized all it's electrons are oriented in one direction. Because a cam is constantly rotating, and is surrounded by metal, those electrons are going to be pulled in every direction and scrambled.

Or if you want to certain:
You can rub a magnet along the metal in one direction for a bunch of times (the more the better), and that will magnetize it to some degree, but its not permanent and will demagnetize if it is hit hard with something.
Click to expand...
From google

You just beat it with a hammer or forehead and knock that magnetism loose
 
ekabil said:
Well i doubt the telescopic pen magnets I have would be powerful enough to magnetize the cam enough to pick up a shim, if you are using a strong electromagnet for some reason it might. but by the time you got up to those high rpms the cam would be demagnetized. Think about it: when something is magnetized all it's electrons are oriented in one direction. Because a cam is constantly rotating, and is surrounded by metal, those electrons are going to be pulled in every direction and scrambled.

Or if you want to certain:

From google

You just beat it with a hammer or forehead and knock that magnetism loose
Click to expand...

THAT I never realized! I'm going to have some fun with magnets I think :D. Hey that means in my ancient four track recorder I can just just beat on the heads with a ball peen hammer and demagnetize them - yessss!

old_skool said:
We'll have to agree to disagree on this point, Clymer is not a manufacturer of any cycle, therefore, is far from being an expert on anything...they used various technicians to dis-assemble and re-assemble the machines in their publications to create a guide for repairs for the general diy mechanic, they were merely a entity who found a need in the market and started a very profitable book business.
Click to expand...

Well we can agree to say basically the same thing but still think we're disagreeing... as usual language is the issue. 'an' authority is not necessarily an 'expert' authority, at least in my view. Clymer is not an expert authority. Nor is Haynes, nor Chilton Neither.
 
old_skool said:
Just like a woman....when you think you're in agreement, change gears and go a different direction:eek::p;)

my wife's the same way, I say she's wrong, she says she's right, this repeats several times, I then say she's right...and then she says I'm still wrong:-s
Click to expand...

Well, aren't you?? Just kidding, no we're both 'right'... this time.

We did not derail this thread, we just took the scenic route.
 
Please, enjoy the view. Senior Isaac is ****ing all over my city and for the time being there is no work being done

Edit: urination as precipitation is what the **** was. The filter actually made it look worse than it was :)
 
ekabil said:
Please, enjoy the view. Senior Isaac is ****ing all over my city and for the time being there is no work being done

Edit: urination as precipitation is what the **** was. The filter actually made it look worse than it was :)
Click to expand...

Have you been taking lessons from Jeeprusty? :confused:
This sounds like something that he would post.

Eric
 
Meanwhile, back in the Charleston SC vicinity, ekabil has assumed the fetal position, contemplating his role in the universe and wondering what he did in his past life to deserve this situation.......
 
this is wore out,wth?the guy made a mistake let it be,if one is that unfamiliar an does not use the search function on valves for an 8 valve zuki,Um how many times has someone done this since i have been here?3 atleast,as far as i am concerned,not to down the OP.but DO YOUR RESEARCH.it has been posted the newb mistakes,
I know for me i was learching this site for 3-4 months learning my bike before i even attempted the major maintenance and repairs,and that is with 20 years automotive experience and 3-4k in tools and growing still.
It is repairable ,he will just learn more now,so help him and let it go,
If he doesnt want to accept the help than just,well as lennon put it,LET IT BE.
Nuff said.the onfo is here and everywhere,read learn ind do you research,some do some don't.
 
hey I don't think that is an issue anymore, everyone knows (including me) I made a mistake. But like you said its fixable.

For the time being there is rain everyday in the near future except this weekend, but I have to go out of town, so Ill post back once I get a chance to work on my bike
 
as i periodically reminded myself when doing the first big piece of work on my bike, there's nothing that you can't fix with enough time and/or money. it's just a bike.

sounds like you're back on track. good luck with the work and hope we'll get more updates soon
 
well I finally have a sunny day where I might be getting off work a bit early and have an opportunity to finish what I started. In the process of rebuilding the carbs I found I have been using the impact wrench wrong this whole time. Now that I understand that integral tool, I will have another crack at these cam cover bolts. I am going to try and get them off withOUT rotating the cams at all, to hopefully preserve them as much as possible. If that is possible, then I will simply lift the cams out, clean up the buckets with paper towels and a telescopic magnet, then put the shims back. Then I can look at the cams, file and sand as needed, or replace as a last resort. Then I can put those back in, realign with the timing as per the manual (clymer), and continue checking clearances and replacing shims. Does that all sound right?

When I have the cams out and I'm cleaning the buckets, I will probably have to remove the residual dirty oil that is still there. Should I pour a bit of fresh oil back in before I seal up the valve cover?
 
Since you are on the learning curve you may as well stay the course: remove the carbs, remove the cam chain tensioner, then remove the cams. It's not very hard to do all this as long as you take your time. The buckets can be pulled out with a magnet. I suggest you remove them and make sure all the metal chips are cleaned up (I'd do one at a time so you can make sure to get them back into their native hole). Installing the cams is easy as long as you following the instructions in the Factory Suzuki Service manual. Free download available on basscliff's website. I advise using the vice grips technique for the exhaust cam as it simplifys the process. After you get the cams reinstalled, you will then have to install the cam chain tensioner. Learn how to wind up the tensioner and set the lock screw. After the tensioner is installed, release the set screw and tighten down the lock nut. It's all pretty simple, but don't be afraid to ask questions after you review the FSM procedure.

Good luck
 
if you find yourself in need of cams i have a good set from my parts motor. its an 82 gs1100glz engine i pulled from a wrecked frame. ill sell em for whatever it costs to ship them.
 
cool, thanks for the offer. Actually I had a chance to finally look at them today, and they aren't messed up. Some slight scarring on the outside edges of the cams - ie the edges are a bit rounded - but nothing serious. I think Im just gonna file em and then reinstall. Speaking of which I also finally (with the help of vice grips) broke the bolts on the cam covers free. It got dark before I could do anything more than loosen them, so I put the cover back on and cleaned up.

I want to talk about the cause of all this. What could cause every valve to be so far outside of clearance? The most alarming possibility is that the PO took the head off a much older and worn engine and replaced the head of my 14,000 mi engine with it. The fact that all the existing shims are in the 2.65-2.70 range is evidence against this, however - if he had done that, then he would needed smaller shims and I would be able to get in spec with one or two sizes down. Although if he was willing to switch heads like that then I doubt he would go and adjust the shims to be in spec so it is still a possibility.

The other possibility is that the high temperature of ethanol-laced gasoline burnt the valves and knocked them out of their seats. Something like that anyway, my understanding is limited here but I don't think these engines were designed for ethanol gas...lately I had been using ethanol 87 octane (initially I used premium only but the manual says 87 and up is fine so...). Is this a possibility? Those are the only two things I have heard of or thought of. What else could have caused this, and what can I do to ensure that my engine doesn't need more than just smaller shims?

next time I have an afternoon free I will be removing the cams and cleaning the buckets. Hopefully reinstalling them too but we will see how it goes.

Thanks guys and gals
 
I just read this thread from the beginning for the first time. I really want to jump on a plane and go to Charleston.
Curt
 
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