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Chunk of zip tie in the cylinder

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gibbelstein
  • Start date Start date
7981GS said:
Pay attention to what you are doing and mistakes don't happen. Period.
Click to expand...

Same applies to the zip tie method. And I am FAR from convinced that all the trouble arising from the Motion Pro tool are due to inattentiveness or ineptitude. Perhaps there really is a difference between it and the Suzuki tool. I'd like to see a comparison, it could be enlightening.
 
7981GS said:
All of these feasible solutions would not be needed if he just used the correct tool. :(
Sorry to burst the bubble of those that are still convinced that the vippy tie is a better idea.
I have NEVER in over a hundred valve adjustments in over 30 years EVER broke a valve shim.
WHAT DOES ONE HAVE TO DO TO DO THAT ANYWAY???? :confused:
Pay attention to what you are doing and mistakes don't happen. Period.


Eric


Shameless plug: I have shims for sale for those that need some whether they practice breaking them or just need a different size.
Click to expand...
Your pointless posts are not solving anything in this thread. Please go away.
 
I've used the Motion Pro tool and it never felt anything but fully secure???

Could it be that you're not getting it out of the combustion chamber because it's still caught in the valve?
 
I would run it. No question. If it gets stuck in the exhaust port, it won't be for long.

Before I run it, I would try to blow it out the port by opening both valves near TDC and blowing air into the intake.

Heck, the very worst thing that could happen isn't much worse than pulling the top end off to the base gasket, is it?. Potentially, it could get cougt in the exhaust valve and potentially the piston could hit the open valve, but I think it would not, and if it did I think it would be soft enough to do no damage.

Mostly, I think that if it makes it to the port, its going out period.
 
What about bringing the piston to about 1" below TDC, then fishing around in the cylinder using a bent coat hanger with a wad of backwards wrapped tape on the end, so the sticky side is out? Can't be that hard to fish that piece out.
 
Thanks, guys.

Thanks, guys.

Thanks to the folks with constructive input. I should have specified that it was the exhaust valve, so it is likely either in the cyl or in the exhaust runner.

I hadn't considered using suction. I have a shop vac, 1/4" clear tubing and duct tape. I think I'll try this first. And, a few people voiced my primary concern, which is being able to lay my hands on that little fella, to confirm that it is out.

I also bought an air gun similiar to your pic, HG, I'll try with valves closed first to see if the air pushes it to where I can see it. But I also bought some slender tweezers, some flexi straws and electrical tape to try. Allie, I shared your concern about putting something else in there that could possibly become stuck. If I need to use this step, I might try to de-tack the "outside" of the tape a bit with my fingers before putting it in the cyl to try to minimize that possibility.

And, Dogma, I need to pull the carbs to check my needle valve anyway, so as a 2nd (3rd?) contingency, I'll try it this way with the intake valve open. But by the time I get to this step, if it is in the cyl, hopefully I will have already gotten it.

The only gripper tool at Harbour Freight had magnets added to the end, so it was too wide to fit into the plug hole. And upon looking at it, I think that if I found one that fit, I'd be grabbing blind until the zip tie piece was where I could see it, and then I'd be able to grab it with my straw contraption.

Mike, that was not something that had occurred to me. I assumed it was above or below, not that it was still pinched there. I think the gap on the valve was still OK, but I'll check.

850 Combat, that was along the lines I was thinking as well. While it CERTAINLY is not my preference to leave it in there, pulling it apart seems drastic. With any luck, I won't have to make the decision.

For what it is worth, I will be sticking with the zip tie in the future. Having done it this way and experiencing how easy it was to do, the tool would have to be damn nice to justify buying yet another single purpose tool. In the future, I would just take it a bit easier on smashing the "fold" with pliers and also not start trying to pull it out until the valve is more fully depressed. It sounds like this problem is a very low frequency occurrence. I think of it like plane crashes. They're rare enough that I don't let it scare me off. And most of them are a result of human error as well. :p
 
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me too

me too

I'd use the zip tie again too, too easy.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
 
A $15 tool or hours of effort when things go south... you guys are nuts!

Don't forget to use a Beam-type torque wrench to tighten a 72 INCH-POUND bolt! ;)


nuts.gif



Eric
 
7981GS said:
A $15 tool or hours of effort when things go south... you guys are nuts!

Don't forget to use a Beam-type torque wrench to tighten a 72 INCH-POUND bolt! ;)


nuts.gif



Eric
Click to expand...

After being chastised (properly I might add) when I was new to the sight about doing the "30 years of maintenance" I took to the task of checking/adjusting valves. I was very apprehensive about it and studied all methods. I read about the zip tie method but was not to sure about it. Also read about the "trouble" with slippage with the approved tool but decided to buy the Motion Pro anyway. Job went quickly and easily, much to my delight. This is one vote for the "special" tool.
 
Option #1
Just pull the spark plug out, and tap the starter button a few times, you should see it floppin around...it might even fly out.
Once you know it's in there for sure...get a shop-vac and duct-tape a smaller hose to it.

Option #2:
get a small flexible grabber tool, sort of like this.
http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/4921/

Just make sure it's small enough, they probably sell them at autozone and just about everywhere....they make em thin enough to easily get it down the spark plug hole.

Option#3:
**** it, Just run the damn engine!
The exhaust gasses are over 500deg easy when they come out of that exhaust port, on warm-up.
Odds are, you used a cheap zip-tie, so it'll melt within seconds!
 
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Wrap a layer of tape around your zip tie tool next time. It won't break if you do that. ;)

Did you say you already started the bike with that in there? If so, it's likely a melted pile of goo now.
 
Question. .. test one of your zip ties in gasoline. I had a batch from harbor fright that turned to mush when they got exposed to gas overnight. If yours do too, problem solved er desolved... Put some raw gas in the cyl, let it set overnight, change your oil and fire it up.
 
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Allie is on to something here!!! Why not make the rig for the home made soda blaster and stick the end of the pick up tube in and see if it will suction the piece up... at least enough to keep it suctioned to the end as you remove the tube????
 
Anyone have a mini camera he can look around in there with??? Make it way easier to formulate a fix.
 
When I lost the mirror off the end of an inspection camera as I was looking at the inside of my 850's cylinders, I used a chopstick with a bit of double sided tape to retrieve it.

to the OP. First try the method I used to retrieve the inspection mirror. If you aren't successful at retrieving it, harbor freight has a cheepo B/W inspection camera you could use to look into the cylinder for it, or you can turn the engine over by hand a few times and recheck the valve clearances on that cylinder, looking for an increase in clearance from the zip tie between the valve and seat. If you find the clearance to be correct, it's either still in cylinder or its already found it's way into the exhaust pipe.

Fish around in the cylinder for once more and if you still don't find it... hit the start button.
 
4 pages for a piece of a tie wrap, good thing it wasnt something serious
 
You should see how we respond when someone drops a twinkie into the fuel tank. Nuts.
 
I would say try to locate it with a flashlight shining down the spark plug hole. If you can do that, then attack it with a small dowel with the previously suggested duct tape or something else sticky to it and fish it out of the hole. Or, the vacuum trick, find a hose that is flexible that fits into the spark plug hole. Tape that hose to a regular vacuum hose and suck away.
The danger with running the engine with it in the cylinder is that it could get under a valve, and not completely under it. When the valve closes on it who knows what will happen. I would only do this as a last ditch desparation attempt and only when you don't care what the out come is, because it probably won't be good.
 
Update:
Well, it seems the winning combo was: fish around for quite a while without finding it, blow a bunch of air in there without finding it or seeing any signs of it, check the shim gap to ensure that it wasn't holding the valve open, and finally fire it up.

I noticed no problem whatsoever. It was kicking out quite a bit of smoke and then I checked the sync, leaned out all 4 carbs, and put it all back together. Now it is my turn to remark about how surprised I am by the amount of difference to be made by doing the "carb refresh and shim check" combo. The bike is running the best it has ever run on my watch.

Thanks all for the help and suggestions on this.
 
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