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Cleaned carbs and now it will not start when warm

  • Thread starter Thread starter xxBenJamminxx
  • Start date Start date
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xxBenJamminxx

Guest
Hey all I pull my carbs the other day and finally went through them cleaning them out. I have yet to replace the orings and will be ordering them this week but the old ones didnt look too bad. Now when starting cold it fires right up the way it always did minus it seems to take few more seconds for the rpms to jump up over 2000 before turning the choke down a little then it did before. It still runs good and strong but as soon as I turn it off it will not start until its cold again. I have decent spark, but have not done the coil relay mod as of yet.

Is there anything obvious I should be checking to see why its doing this? Or what would you do?

Thanks in advance.
 
You pretty much answered your own question. :-k
xxBenJamminxx said:
Hey all I pull my carbs the other day and finally went through them cleaning them out. I have yet to replace the orings and will be ordering them this week but the old ones didnt look too bad.
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Why, oh, WHY would you go through all the time and effort to clean the carbs (and this leads me to believe that the job might not have been done properly :oops:) and not replace the o-rings?
icon_shrug.gif


I now have a sneaking suspicion that we are going to see a thread next week that asks "where do these tiny little o-rings go?". Why? I get the impression that you did not take the carbs down completely enough to see the old ones. If you did not take them down that far, you did not clean the carbs properly.

Please prove me wrong.

.
 
They are cheap and easy enough to get. Heck you can probably find then at the local auto parts store
 
I did not take pics. This is my daily driver so needed it back on the road by Monday. I am going to have to remove them again anyhow in order to do the intake orings. I did find the number 3 daiphragm was folded over slightly on an edge, and one pilot jet was previously boogered.

That exaclty y I did it first to see if there any other parts I would need. They were pulled apart n soaked in berrymans for a few hours, w do an overnight soak when I have the parts. I like tinkering like that so its not a bother at all.

Yes its cranks over n everything fine. I did notice spark is a little weak n need a new voltmeter. To test the output. It seems to fire at the end of the starter spinning n the started easier with the choke on so am guessing air leaks in the intakes making it lean. Have the pilot screws at about 1.75 turns each right now.
 
Seems like such a time/effort waste to do it twice instead of doing it right once
 
It may well seem like that to you. If your car breaks do you go out and buy every part it "possibly" could be before starting the job or do you get in there diagnose it and then replace what needs to be replaced?

Everything was in remarkably nice condition. The little orings on the pilots screws and the valve seats as well. They will still get replaced but I don't know what sizes I need for them and had to remove them before I could find out. Wanting to still drive it to work I had no choice but to reassemble it with old parts.

Does anyone have the actual specs on the pilot orings and the any of the others so I can go to a hardware store and get the right ones instead of waiting a week for a couple bucks worth of orings?
 
Just remember any o-rings need to be fuel resistant and of a very specific size. You could look at Robert Barr's website to get an idea of sizes or maybe Z1 enterprises as they are selling 0-rings now too, but I'm sure a bit of searching here on the site could come up with the o-ring sizes. So, for your problem of the bike not starting once warm, I'm guessing it wasn't doing that before the carb rebuild? if it wasn't then what do your spark plugs look like right now. I'm no pro at this but if things were 'extremely' lean maybe this could cause this problem? just thinking out loud. How old are those spark plugs themselves? you could test your coils, at least 11 volts at the coils and check the primary and secondary. Doubt its the coils though if the bike was fine before. You're probably going to have to go back in to all the carbs and make sure everything is correct and clean. Best thing is the more times you do it the faster you get at things. :)
 
xxBenJamminxx said:
It may well seem like that to you. If your car breaks do you go out and buy every part it "possibly" could be before starting the job or do you get in there diagnose it and then replace what needs to be replaced?
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I don't buy what it MIGHT need but i always buy what is required. Orings, Gaskets, these are things you always replace otherwise you are doing it wrong and wasting your time.

You are describing throwing money at a problem. I am describing proper procedure. Would you open an engine and then put it back together with the old gaskets and seals? Maybe you would and then go back later. You won't see me doing that.
 
whats with all the abuse??

the answer "it could be the o-rings all boogered up" would be adequate.

also, have you pulled the idle mixture screws from the top? if these were left in during the dipping, the o-ring could have melted and messed up the mixture. also, were you careful to put them back the right number of turns?
 
ThrottleBack said:
They are cheap and easy enough to get. Heck you can probably find then at the local auto parts store
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No, you are NOT likely to find them at any auto parts store, and even if you did, it would cost a LOT more than what you would pay at cycleorings.com.



xxBenJamminxx said:
They were pulled apart n soaked in berrymans for a few hours, w do an overnight soak when I have the parts. I like tinkering like that so its not a bother at all.
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I enjoy tinkering, too, but I like RIDING even more. All the time and effort to soak for a few hours vs overnight, just seems so ... wasted, but if that's your "thing", go for it.


xxBenJamminxx said:
Yes its cranks over n everything fine. I did notice spark is a little weak n need a new voltmeter. To test the output. It seems to fire at the end of the starter spinning ...
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That sounds like a weak battery. Get your voltmeter sooner than later.


xxBenJamminxx said:
... started easier with the choke on so am guessing air leaks in the intakes making it lean. Have the pilot screws at about 1.75 turns each right now.
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Probably has nothing to do with air leaks, it's simply not getting enough fuel. Most of the time, you will have the screws between 2 and 2 1/2 turns out, but there are differences between bikes.



ThrottleBack said:
Seems like such a time/effort waste to do it twice instead of doing it right once
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But he likes to tinker. :p



xxBenJamminxx said:
It may well seem like that to you. If your car breaks do you go out and buy every part it "possibly" could be before starting the job or do you get in there diagnose it and then replace what needs to be replaced?
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Generally, you only replace what needs to be replaced, but do you have a 30-year-old car? Look at it this way, if you will: Hundreds of us (thousands, actually) have been down this road ahead of you. We are telling you what you are likely to need, based on your description. You can choose to heed the advise or you can second-guess us all and just get what you want. In that case, why bother to ask in the first place? You are only going to do your inspection and replace what you see wrong. Since we have been there before, we will suggest some other stuff that you might not think of, and probably won't discover until you fix the first thing, then have to go back and do it over.

Your money, your time, your choice.



Planetsmasher said:
Youre pretty cynical Steve.
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No, it's more "realistic". :p

.
 
I ordered my oring kit from cycleorings, but i figure if he tries to hunt them locally at least hes trying :p

Nice that they handle 4 carbs, since I only have two lol
 
Just order the orings for cycleorings.. everythnig is there and if you dont use somthing then you have it for later. Its such a crazy cheap package that you cant loose. How much is a working bike worth to you?
 
I plan on getting all the orings and such but now I know I need a #40 pilot jet as well as a new intake boot on the engine side. I was just saying if had gotten the o ring kit and then did it, I would have pulled off the carbs to do the orings and cleaning only to see that I needed the boot and jet as well. So I would have taken them off cleaned them and then, ohh sh!t, I need this too so have to order that and wait for it then pull em apart again to do that.

I do thank you Steve and others for the suggestions and help, as it is greatly appreciated. I think I have found all the sizes I need and have a Fastenal close by that carries alot of Nitiril Buna N orings except if I remember correctly they are mostly 90 durometer instead of 70. I am not sure if that would be too hard of rubber or not but at like $0.12 to $0.50 a piece I may give em a shot or at least go talk to them and see what they say. Its literally like a 100 yards from my work. If anyone know if 90 durometer rubber would be too stiff for this application let me know.
 
Probably has nothing to do with air leaks, it's simply not getting enough fuel. Most of the time, you will have the screws between 2 and 2 1/2 turns out, but there are differences between bikes.
Click to expand...

Thought I would update this as I think I have found my problem(s).

Well this got me thinking that for some reason I was thought the screws should be set at 1.5 to 1.75 turns out, I had mine at 1.5. So I pulled the tank and set the screws at 2.25 turns out and then noticed that the big vent tube that goes from the airbox to what I am guessing is a sort of PCV valve on the valve cover was unhooked yet. Must have been between the lean pilot setting and that huge air leak in the airbox made it turbo lean and wouldnt let it start once warm. Since I have done that I haven't had the problem of it not starting when warm.

I still and gonna replace all the orings since I am sure they are gonna need it anyhow and also want to order a new pilot jet to replace the semi-stripped one. Have to source a decent place for jets yet but will hitting up cycleorings.com here real soon.
 
So it was lean and that was making it not start..the breather tube had nothing to do with it..it was the fuel mix.
 
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