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Clutch basket - what does it all mean Basil?

  • Thread starter Thread starter legaleli
  • Start date Start date
legaleli said:
RICK65CAT brought it to my attention - there should be no play between the outer basket and the drive gear.

I have confirmed a few minutes ago that when I grab the outer basket and turn it... with force... it moves about 2 degrees either way without the big gear to which it is attached moving.

Does this mean the outer basket has to come out, rivets popped, and welded? It seems that way to me...

For clarity when I wiggle #2 a degree or two right and left... #1 stays still.

I really need some help here. Is RICK65CAT correct? Just need confirmation...
Click to expand...
A couple degrees either way is normal. When you turn the basket "with force" you are compressing the damper springs. Did the basket rattle at idle ?? If not I wouldn't bother reinforcing it. It's a street bike......Billy
 
NOW I'm confused...

In the picture below (used as an example of the housing - not the specific example, but generally for all baskets) should there be any movement between the gear and the round housing to which it is attached (also in picture), or should they be connected by a non moving rivet/weld?

gorilla.jpg
 
legaleli said:
NOW I'm confused...

In the picture below (used as an example of the housing - not the specific example, but generally for all baskets) should there be any movement between the gear and the round housing to which it is attached (also in picture), or should they be connected by a non moving rivet/weld?

gorilla.jpg
Click to expand...
No
.......................
 
Wtf?

Wtf?

ok... so I brought my client "basket" (below) up to the machine shop and explain to the guy whats going on... that the basket and the backing plate move independently of each other and that it's probably the rivets slaking off a bit... I showed him that when I hold on to the aluminum "basket" and grip the drive gear I can move the drive gear without the basket moving... about 1 or 2 millimeters.

He repeats what I did on his own and them makes the following observation:

YES the drive gear moves 1 or 2 millimeters without the basket moving...

BUT...

The backing plate moves with the basket and the drive gear is the part that has some play in it. In other words when I grip #1 and move the basket, the basket and #2 move together... the rivets are perfectly fine and everything is intact.. BUT... #1... the big gear isn't attached directly to the backing plate.

Is this normal?

Please help me :D

20100614001.jpg
 
Last edited:
Just answered my own question....

Just answered my own question....

Wow... I wish I had a friction surface like a short carpet in my garage... I would have solved my own problem!

The movement IS normal... those little springs in the back load up when the big gear moves... I now understand more fully the purpose of those springs... the main gear actually DOES move independently of the basket the amount that those springs can load! Very interesting.
 
legaleli said:
Wow... I wish I had a friction surface like a short carpet in my garage... I would have solved my own problem!

The movement IS normal... those little springs in the back load up when the big gear moves... I now understand more fully the purpose of those springs... the main gear actually DOES move independently of the basket the amount that those springs can load! Very interesting.
Click to expand...

Yes the clutch is designed to transfer torque/force through the springs.

The engine crank drives the large gear which rotates relative to the clutch basket to load up the springs. The springs push on the clucth basket. The basket transmits power to the transmission. So yes the units rotate. The standard upgrade is to replace the backing plate that holds the springs and which has the welded rivets. Is is the thin backing plate that is replaced with a much thicker one as well as replacing/shiming the springs which stops rattle.

look near the bottom of the page:
http://gszone.biz/clutches.html
 
Last edited:
I posted a thread a bit back about some slippage at higher speeds, and was told to start with the clutch springs. I got my new springs in and think I found the issue.

Problem with forums and questions is the part of the story that sometimes is most relavent is left out cause the poster doesnt think its important, well a few weeks back I changed my bars to Daytona bars and everything seemed cool. But looking back it started to act up soon after that, well the part of the cable you tighten to keep it from moving slipped and when the clutch lever was released it wasnt getting any slack and didnt fully release the clutch. Not enough to notice at slow speeds but it was the source of my higher speed issues.

If I did out the gasket for the clutch I will probably put in the new springs since I spent the $8 on them. They will do more good stored on the bike than in a drawer.
 
legaleli said:
NOW I'm confused...

In the picture below (used as an example of the housing - not the specific example, but generally for all baskets) should there be any movement between the gear and the round housing to which it is attached (also in picture), or should they be connected by a non moving rivet/weld?

gorilla.jpg
Click to expand...

Hmmm....so if this example in the pic is the same as your basket and the gear ring is independent of the backing plate....why is it welded?

Thats weird....I never knew the gear was seperate from the backing plate. It sure didn't seem that way on my '78 1000.
 
The rivets go thru the aluminum basket, thru the gear, which has slots to allow the gear to move, then thru the back plate. We then weld the rivets which makes the basket and back plate as one piece with the gear between then able to move.
 
Big Jay said:
The rivets go thru the aluminum basket, thru the gear, which has slots to allow the gear to move, then thru the back plate. We then weld the rivets which makes the basket and back plate as one piece with the gear between then able to move.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering... while I have my basket out - should I get the rivets that are currently in there welded to the existing backing plate (for extra security)

... or is this a bad idea?
 
Here we go...

welded.jpg


The only think I don't like it that the guy who did this for me didn't spot weld the stainless washers to the springs... they can't come out of the housing because they are bigger than the opening... but not much bigger... and they can protrude a bit. I'll have to check clearances before putting it back together.
 
legaleli said:
Here we go...

welded.jpg


The only think I don't like it that the guy who did this for me didn't spot weld the stainless washers to the springs... they can't come out of the housing because they are bigger than the opening... but not much bigger... and they can protrude a bit. I'll have to check clearances before putting it back together.
Click to expand...

So let us know how hard you ride and how much that helps v.s. putting in a HD plate.
 
posplayr said:
So let us know how hard you ride and how much that helps v.s. putting in a HD plate.
Click to expand...

I will absolutely.

I actually just brought the piece back to the shop... the shim washers he put in were so small as that they would slide out enough to "hang" further out than the drive gear. That got me thinking that if a washer hooked up on an internal part of the housing and got pulled out of the basket housing it would end up in the crankcase... not a place I'd want a stainless steel washer!

This could create a while new issue because they have to drill the old weld, use a new rivet, and weld it back... I can feel a replacement in my future... but the guys at the shop are pretty good... time will tell.
 
When I did my 750 hub, I bought an angle grinder and ground off the rivets on the backside, pried it apart, then shimmed the springs with washers and had it tig welded at a machine shop. I am not sure if the HD rebuild kit that APE sells will fit other bikes than the 1100/1150. You would at least have to drill out the aluminum basket for much bigger rivets.
Once you have the hub apart it will make it easier to understand how the thing works.
 
legaleli said:
Here we go...
The only think I don't like it that the guy who did this for me didn't spot weld the stainless washers to the springs... they can't come out of the housing because they are bigger than the opening... but not much bigger... and they can protrude a bit. I'll have to check clearances before putting it back together.
Click to expand...


Uh, the reason he didn't weld to the springs is because if you heat the spring up, like what would happen when you weld to it... It causes it to lose it's "springyness" Yes, I know I made up the word and I know that isn't the engineering/technical term for it but you get the point. You ever see a ricer with his car all lowered and it's bouncing all over the road? Well, that is probably because the dumb F used a torch to heat the springs and this caused them to lose the... (Uh, damn it too much to drink now and I can't remember the fricken word I want to use...) .. Um, it caused the part of the spring that was heated to lose it's "rebound".

Anyway, you get my point. What the welder did was the right thing to do because he knows his shat!
 
chef1366 said:
Tension?
......................
Click to expand...


Flyingsteve is right on the whole spring weld thing... my bad :o

My problem is, and I'm sure of this... if the springs loosened up again... which they would.. the washers would rattle like the springs did... the diameter of the washers this guy used was too small... the washers actually protrude so that you could lay the basket down on a flat surface with the washers pulled out as far as they can go and the washers would hang down further than the lip of the drive gear - the washers would become the legs of a "basket" table.

By way of example:

welded03.jpg
 
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